1.22 - 1.22a - 1.22b changes

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Originally Posted by waldo

Maybe I read that wrong, but what you posted sure seemed like parry reduced damage on the goblin attack to 5k give or take, and shield block reduced damage to 9999.... Also, with a lvl 99 mob, how do you know the damage wasn't cut in half with shield block and cut to 1/8 with parry? Something 49 levels higher very well could hit for 20-30,000+ if the shown damage weren't floored at 9999.
Just something to think on.

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The reason Parry cut the damage to 5k was the use of Foresight, but I expected to take maybe 1 or 2 damage, like on most monsters. However, as usual Aegis Boon is a direct 0 damage and a heal of a capped 703 HP. I look at Foresight and Aegis Boon as similar skills.

Yeah, you're right, I didn't think that it could scale up past 9999 lol. It just surprised me that it partial blocked for 9999 because I would of considered 9999 to be a cap, but that is just an assumption.
The goblin wasn't the real test though, it was something I just wanted to look at. The real test was damage mitigation between partial block and partial parry on Garuda and by the looks of it, block is winning.

Was nothing serious, just playing around trying to figure out what they did to the Shield Block.
Just letting people know what I noticed in terms of PLD mitigation vs WAR since 1.22 update.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

not even sure why people keep comparing the two... Parry happens far less especially now that devine veil is 100% block rate for 20 seconds on a 60 second cool down, soo 40 seconds after each time you spam devine veild you get another 100% block rate for yet another 20 seconds. Parry is not only completely unpredictable, but for that reason is totaly unreliable. even if parry was 100% of the damage , I would put my money on the ability to purposly time a 100% block rate over the random act of parry.

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Not looking at parry rate vs block rate. Looking at parry mitigation vs block mitigation.
Which one absorbs more damage.

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Originally Posted by 1clou

Haha as much as I love my Gla/Pld I know I am sometimes unobservant of certain proc's. While on the topic of parry and blocking on Gla/Pld I was hoping to confirm that neither of these jobs naturally proc. a parry. I have used forsight and that works some of the time, but I would like to know if either of these jobs(Gla/Pld) have a natural tendency to parry instead of blocking? If not something that would definitely help both of these jobs(Gld/Pld) is giving it the ability to block and parry.

As far an enmity goes on Gla/Pld they can easily maintain hate better than War on a single target so I don't have any problems that way, not that I am saying they shouldn't get a boost enmity wise along with more of a natural damage mitigation damage in general(physical/magic/breathe) but at the very least physical damage. A damage boost will always be welcomed to any class(Patch 1.22a or b).

But overall what needs to be done and partly is going to be done in some respects in future patches to fix Pld and Gla to make them more feasible which I am sure no one will argue is: general damage mitigation(% wise, not including shield block), increased block rate(which they did improve significantly, thumbs up), increased HP pool(patch 1.22b i believe), a more reliable source of mp would be nice as well.

Reason I would say general damage mitigation should be implemented % wise is it would allow Gld/Pld to be more self sufficient opening up a DD spot in place of a Whm where both War and Pld are generally dependent on currently. Sorry about the long thread.

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Well, if the clean 50% damage reduction from partial blocking is correct, then I'd say taking 50% less physical damage ever 1/3 of a minute is absolutely fine for me in terms of balancing mitigation.

With the increased HP pool aswell, it would make us a much more defensive tank in general.

well I guess its a good thing we dont need a tank for a mob 49 lvls above us lmao, reading this post then noticing how it got two "likes" in response on further confirms my suspisions that this lust to have war as main tank and the general idea that war > pld in every aspect of tanking is just that, LUST. Their can be no logistical reason to conclude that WAR > PLD in half the aspects of tanking much less all of them. Why people lust after WAR for main tank? Well only thing I can think of at the moment is

1) its easy to do.. spam combos and the ocasional buff

2) it deals damage while tanking (even tho said damage is unreliable at best on boss mobs, enless you gimp defensive stats to add to offensive stats, in wich case your still gimping your tank)

3) Those who are still fairly new to the game are getting caught up in the hype that WAR > PLD or are getting realy bad info on how to play PLD.

I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. I have nothing against WAR as a tank or DD, nor do I have anything against buffing PLD, I am simply stateing , the way things are NOW, PLD is very much a viable tank and in many situations , a more valuable tank. I simply belive that once again hype and generalized thinking has caused many to simply misunderstand how to build a pld tank (stat wise) and the focus on trying to squeez dps out of a tank has caused many to misuse PLD in a way that would obviously make it inferior to WAR.
I could go on , but I will end this post with this thought. Build and play your PLD in such a way to make life easier on your healer. This dose NOT mean add more HP, that DOSE NOT make anything easier for your healer. Add damage mitigation where possable, granted not much you can do with magic damage atm , but that comes down to how you play your pld, it is completly possable to deflect enough magic damage from any boss mob with well timed buffs , coupled with well timed heals and your healer should feel realtivly useless. This is the effect you want. once you manage to reduce the need of a healer for the main tank down to one/ if any , then you can safley replace a second/third healer (pending on your current set up) with a DPS job that is best suited for the fight your on. In this way you can get MORE dps out of a party set up then the usual 1 WAR (doing less damage because stats are gimped to allow it to take less damage / or doing good damage but taking hits like a lil girl because stats are gimped to allow for higher dps) 2 healer and 5 dps. Either way a GOOD PLD can easly replace a WAR with no loss, if not gains to DPS out put.

still dose not matter how much damage parry absorbs if you cant even moderatly predict or control when you parry. Pary vs Block is not only a moot subject but if you wanted to compair the two, block wins on several fronts

1) hands down, block happens more offten even w/o devine veil

2) If you know how to play pld, all i have to say is "devine veil" and thats enough said

3) both 1 and 2 aside ageious boon blows parry out of the water, that ability alone alows you to not only block 100% of the damage from an attack, you can purposly time it for when you need it, it gives HP back and just using that ability as often as you can puts your block rate WAY above your parry rate.

not hard to see BLOCK > PARRY K.O. first round knock out.

It's already been proven that most (pretty much all) content can be done with 1 healer and a war tank. Due to this, there is never a -need- to have a pld tank. Hell, whms are even nuking in Garuda fights (burn/nonburn) with war tanks, how can you think pld is better than war still?

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Originally Posted by Rexus

It's already been proven that most (pretty much all) content can be done with 1 healer and a war tank. Due to this, there is never a -need- to have a pld tank. Hell, whms are even nuking in Garuda fights (burn/nonburn) with war tanks, how can you think pld is better than war still?

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1.22b. Your wars will be DD's using cyclone.

I'm guessing to output the same type of damage cyclone provides now, they will need berserk on.

That's if the rebalance is done right.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

still dose not matter how much damage parry absorbs if you cant even moderatly predict or control when you parry. Pary vs Block is not only a moot subject but if you wanted to compair the two, block wins on several fronts

1) hands down, block happens more offten even w/o devine veil

2) If you know how to play pld, all i have to say is "devine veil" and thats enough said

3) both 1 and 2 aside ageious boon blows parry out of the water, that ability alone alows you to not only block 100% of the damage from an attack, you can purposly time it for when you need it, it gives HP back and just using that ability as often as you can puts your block rate WAY above your parry rate.

not hard to see BLOCK > PARRY K.O. first round knock out.

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Yeah I understand this but the mitigation is still important for divine veil. The difference on halving damage from skills like wicked wheel and downburst (I think) in garuda aswell as the auto attacks. It's sexy.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

Yeah I understand this but the mitigation is still important for divine veil. The difference on halving damage from skills like wicked wheel and downburst (I think) in garuda aswell as the auto attacks. It's sexy.

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ok, I will agree to that, in order to make devine veil realy noteable block ,not block rate, would have to increase but lets face it anything past 50% is kinda over kill, hell 50% is like having another sentinal that lasts 20 seconds for physical damage only. Again, Im not gona say no to a 80% damage block but is it needed? I realy dont see it, Then again I have 769 def 369 vit no buffs or food soo I am probably not in a position to truly apreciate the value of a realy high block.

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

ok, I will agree to that, in order to make devine veil realy noteable block ,not block rate, would have to increase but lets face it anything past 50% is kinda over kill, hell 50% is like having another sentinal that lasts 20 seconds for physical damage only. Again, Im not gona say no to a 80% damage block but is it needed? I realy dont see it, Then again I have 769 def 369 vit no buffs or food soo I am probably not in a position to truly apreciate the value of a realy high block.

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Not sure if you're following but on Garuda and ifrit, all our partial blocks with a kite shield or more are 50% blocks.
I think it is okay for physical damage only, gives Paladin that unique mitigation. 50% mitigation is fine, but honestly I would not stack sentinel with it. Using sentinel at the right time means we get 50% damage mitigation for 40 seconds as opposed to 80% for 20.
But let's stay on topic, this is about 1.22 changes.

I was tanking princess & marshall together on PLD last night and noticed the damage cut was not 50% when blocking. On several accounts, when taking a weapon skill it reduced from 1100ish to 700ish damage taken. Auto attacks were 900ish damage most and being reduced to 500 or 600ish damage taken.

Not sure what the calculation is on shield blocks but it still seems weird to me.