Final Fantasy XIV and a Culture of Enabling

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Sure, a lot of them are doing it to their friends, but the party gets affected because of it. It's disrespectful even in that case.

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Well, I meant doing it in a party full of friends, like in a run filled with FC members, not with strangers involved.

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I'm not saying it happens to me specifically ALL the time, but rather it happens in the game fairly commonly. I'd post my own stories in the TfDF thread more often if that was the case.

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I'm still not convinced that it is fairly common. It should be very noticeable to everyone if it were.

About the closest thing that I could say happen in the game fairly commonly, enough to potentially be experienced by a lot of people, would be people greeting at the beginning and at the end while saying nothing in between and just going through the motion of completing the duty.

And even then, I'm still not so sure that's also fairly common. Many people might see a lot of chat during a duty, especially if they're the ones that like to start conversations.

Yes yes Caur, we get it. Everybody bad. Everybody should be 100% in all aspects of the game. Jenova was the best (despite being toxic but it "shaped" you), Siren is bad. You complaining in NN about the poor state of things in the game and trying to change things for years, yadda yadda yadda.

Also, I wasn't there for this particular mentor kicking incident but I was there a couple days ago when another Mentor who was "trying" to "educate" by being condescending and laughing at a sprout. Why do I feel like some things are not being said in whole?

/shrug

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Also, I wasn't there for this particular mentor kicking incident but I was there a couple days ago when another Mentor who was "trying" to "educate" by being condescending and laughing at a sprout. Why do I feel like some things are not being said in whole?

/shrug

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In my experience it usually has come down to execution and not what they're correcting. Speaking as somebody who tries to help when people are new or are getting things wrong. The number of people who don't like it compared to those who listen is minimal. I have had the "you don't pay my sub" types one literally has said those exact words.

But typically if there's any dog piling it's on the person taking it the wrong way or if the person doing the correct is rude, nasty or disrespectful.

And when I've seen people complain about people not liking people taking advice from them, the manner in which was generally abrasive, rude and disrespectful. It's just natural that people are less likely to listen and are more likely to be defensive if you're rude or you put them down.

If there isn't more to that story and people dogpiled on somebody trying to help, then I think it's an exception rather than the rule.

If my experience of NN is more that the mentors are often toxic towards new players in their feedback, but it has been a while since I've been a mentor, because I never found the system fit for purpose and just help people as I see it needed.

Even when you say things nicely in this game people get offended.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Even when you say things nicely in this game people get offended.

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Well because clearly it was not nice to them. I once mentioned to a BLM in a lowbie dungeon they could just spam freeze and keep thunder dot up during AoE just like that.

They got salty told me worry about myself, even the group got on my case cause I did not say please and I also assumed they needed help.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

Even when you say things nicely in this game people get offended.

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I have never had anyone in this game offended at me, and I say things all the time.

NN was, busy when I was in it, but hardly the wild west as the OP has suggested. people are people and usually, you reap what you sow. if your idea of "nice" is to say "you maggot ridden piece of parmesan, you suck, do your fricken job quests..." might want to rethink your communication skills.

NN is temporary, and when it disappeared, I never even noticed

man, OP's posting history is wild. It seems like the only reason they bothered to make a forum account is to complain about the Novice Network and not much else.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

man, OP's posting history is wild. It seems like the only reason they bothered to make a forum account is to complain about the Novice Network and not much else.

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Now imagine that in our server's actual NN and going full "ok boomer" in it: complaining about degenerates then the playerbase, then goin on about how the old days were good, then back to the degeneracy then back to how his old sever was great.



Several times a week. Unprompted too at times.

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Originally Posted by Ammokkx

man, OP's posting history is wild. It seems like the only reason they bothered to make a forum account is to complain about the Novice Network and not much else.

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We need more people doing that. Fighting the good fight.

It's because people seem to forget, whats acceptable in your community, or those you play with regularly isnt for everyone else. Example, some people like parsing, can't go into a random DF/PF and parse and tell people why they're doing so bad. So as these players grow, experience and interact more with the game, they eventually think things that were the norm for them is the norm for others, and in some cases enabling people as they go along.

Also the NN is, and will continue to be a waste of time, if you really care to help sprouts and inexperieced players, interact with them directly, be more hands on. Expecting others to adjust to your norms is rude, not everyone has to worry about what you feel or your feelings so long as they're not directly attacking you, the same goes for PFs, black list them or report them if they're that bad, and again another case of things were people still don't have to adjust to you.

Ultimately as an online game, use the report feature, I say it in WoW, ESO and FF. I bring this up because no one EVER seems to use it and just complain.