[Suggestion] FFXIV punishment system rework

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Just take the penalty if you're not prepared. And if two other people don't want you there, you should leave before made to leave anyway.

Removing vote kick is just going to open the door to harassing people until they leave. It would also open the door to people refusing to leave and harassing the rest of the party via sabotage. The two of these opposing situations combined are a recipe for disaster, and way too much work for the GMs.

I'm going to side with the majority of the party in this situation. People generally don't reach for a kick, but when they succeed it's because multiple people want someone gone. That alone is reason enough for me to say that person should be gone.

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And leaving vote kick the way it's now is opens door for parties to harass anybody just because they can. And you can kick someone by just having 2 votes of 4. So if you entered dungeon with your party of 2 and meet another party of 2 then it's only question of who first started the vote. It's flawed.
And you saying that anyone should leave if he not liked by other two players that it is majority. Your calculation is wrong, cause:
2 angry players == 1 not angry player + 1 person who u tried to kick
it's 2=2, it's parity and not majority.

So vote rules at least should be readjusted to
3of4 and 5of8

And yes, I've experienced kick just because 2 persons was in party and they wanted to invite 3rd one in active duty.

You're prioritizing the game over people living. They could each have various interests and reasons out of the infinite for playing, or not entirely playing. Why should they all have to be shackled and focus on just one thing they could do? Isn't the real mistake that you expect all to be and live one particular way, always? I think that is toxic and you ruin your own experience by defining and imposing such expectations, and allowing only one path and outcome. Even if a duty isn't going "well", even if it may eventually disband, I think you could still find enjoyment if you see and be there another way. Maybe help get through anyway, be there for whatever progress that can be made, or go along with whatever it is, regardless of anything you intended. Might be that it could turn out to be more enjoyable than what you intended. If it's a duty you've done a lot and that's the problem, how is it fair for you to put the weight of your own problem on them?

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Originally Posted by Lethros

You're prioritizing the game over people living. They could each have various interests and reasons out of the infinite for playing, or not entirely playing. Why should they all have to be shackled and focus on just one thing they could do? Isn't the real mistake that you expect all to be and live one particular way, always? I think that is toxic and you ruin your own experience by defining and imposing such expectations, and allowing only one path and outcome. Even if a duty isn't going "well", even if it may eventually disband, I think you could still find enjoyment if you see and be there another way. Maybe help get through anyway, be there for whatever progress that can be made, or go along with whatever it is, regardless of anything you intended. Might be that it could turn out to be more enjoyable than what you intended. If it's a duty you've done a lot and that's the problem, how is it fair for you to put the weight of your own problem on them?

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I fully agree with u that existing punishment system is shackles people living and such expectations lead to toxic witch hunting behavior. That's why I created this thread in 1st place.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

And leaving vote kick the way it's now is opens door for parties to harass anybody just because they can. And you can kick someone by just having 2 votes of 4. So if you entered dungeon with your party of 2 and meet another party of 2 then it's only question of who first started the vote. It's flawed.
And you saying that anyone should leave if he not liked by other two players that it is majority. Your calculation is wrong, cause:
2 angry players == 1 not angry player + 1 person who u tried to kick
it's 2=2, it's parity and not majority.

So vote rules at least should be readjusted to
3of4 and 5of8

And yes, I've experienced kick just because 2 persons was in party and they wanted to invite 3rd one in active duty.

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The person getting kicked doesn’t get a vote because their feelings on the opinion of the other three players does not matter.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

The person getting kicked doesn’t get a vote because their feelings on the opinion of the other three players does not matter.

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Opinion of kicked person does mean because we have "Presumption of innocence" so that person can't be found guilty before guilty if proofed, my dear friend.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

Opinion of kicked person does mean because we have "Presumption of innocence" so that person can't be found guilty before guilty if proofed, my dear friend.

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You’re spouting nonsense. The other three people decide if they want you there, and if a majority say they don’t want you you’re removed. You don’t get a voice in the matter because your opinion isn’t relevant— it’s their decision to make.

You had your chance before someone was annoyed enough to request a vote kick. Presumption of innocence isn’t even tangentially relevant to this; this isn’t a court case, this is a social situation in which you are are being ostracized for being incompatible with the other humans you are playing with.

If the option to kick were taken away, you would be ostracized other ways. If people don’t want you there, they’ll find a way to not have you there.

Voting people out is a *mercy* to all involved.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

You’re spouting nonsense. The other three people decide if they want you there, and if a majority say they don’t want you you’re removed. You don’t get a voice in the matter because your opinion isn’t relevant— it’s their decision to make.

You had your chance before someone was annoyed enough to request a vote kick. Presumption of innocence isn’t even tangentially relevant to this; this isn’t a court case, this is a social situation in which you are are being ostracized for being incompatible with the other humans you are playing with.

If the option to kick were taken away, you would be ostracized other ways. If people don’t want you there, they’ll find a way to not have you there.

Voting people out is a *mercy* to all involved.

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As I said earlier u need only 2 persons to vote 'kick', not 3.
And this vote is surely court case ~ social situation of Lynching.

so you'd want to maintain a public witch hunt list? boy you must be fun at parties.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

so you'd want to maintain a public witch hunt list? boy you must be fun at parties.

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Nope. I said wut i want ~ rework of this system. Dat all.

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Originally Posted by Abyss_me

As I said earlier u need only 2 persons to vote 'kick', not 3.
And this vote is surely court case ~ social situation of Lynching.

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The person initiating the vote kick is the 1st person. The other two that aren't you are #2 and #3. there fore it is 3 vs. 1. If you're always the person getting kicked, the problem may be you, no?

Also if anything is said in the chat that might indicate they are dumping you for a friend of theirs (say at like the last boss of the dungeon) you can report them for abuse of the vote kick system.