Monk Rework just brought us back to 2.0 MNK but with no GL.

I was so excited by the 5.4 rework, I started raiding again on Monk and for awhile I was enjoying it however, I ended up dropping the tier (due to other reasons) but Monk really started to feel just... unfun to play. I really don't like using PB under RoF, I don't get any satisfaction out of it whatsoever and actually find it more of a nusiance due to having to constantly move from flank to rear, or praying I have time to slip in an arms length or RoE charge to help. Chakra is much better now but now it's just obscene how much you get and makes it really frustrating when it procs but one of your other ogcds is also up. Whilst this may have happened before, now it happens all the time and burst windows have become something of a nightmare to fit everything in, god help you if you let anything drift (and you probably will).

Frankly, my hopes have been somewhat dashed and all I can do is pray that 6.0 really is a full rework or this might be the final straw for me. All the other melee jobs feel so much more feature complete. Sure, they have little issues here and there, like SAM allignments but they are something you can just deal with, Monk just feels kinda boring to play now and I found it more tiring to play due to PB under RoF. Feels like every encounter was designed to screw with 90s jobs in this latest tier and you really feel it on Monk.

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Originally Posted by Irisdina_Wiloh

I really don't like using PB under RoF, I don't get any satisfaction out of it whatsoever and actually find it more of a nusiance due to having to constantly move from flank to rear, or praying I have time to slip in an arms length or RoE charge to help.

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I seem to constantly get crucified for saying this. I hate the positional playstyle of MNK, but I love the fun gameplay of punching and kicking. If that makes sense? Positionals are what some say "gives the job identity". That's dumb imo. What gives a job an identity is a playstyle that is unique (AST,GNB,DNC to name a few). These jobs STAND OUT because they are unique by design.

Monk's postionals are not what make it unique. They are what hold it back. Dancing around the boss/mob like a moron to play optimally isn't fun to me. There are times when I just become so lazy that I don't even move for positionals just out of protest. True north and RoE are nice, but MAN do I miss that 30 secs from RoE, albeit clunky to activate by getting hit.

I have a feeling 6.0 is going to make monk being pushed into a ninja style gameplay given what we have now. I personally HOPE our monk skills can be used to generate a final attack combo (like mudra). Only monk is just actively using it's GCD skills in sequence to build an OGCD attack. Chackra will remain passive, but I would be very appreciative if they added a new chackra spender that allowed 60 secs avoiding positionals. Sacrifice oGCD DPS for no positionals for 60 sec. Man I would use that as an opener as I would pop that immediately at the start of a fight.

I digress.

This is all I would wish for, but know I will never get.

I love monk, but it's a domestic abuse relationship.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I seem to constantly get crucified for saying this. I hate the positional playstyle of MNK, but I love the fun gameplay of punching and kicking. If that makes sense? Positionals are what some say "gives the job identity". That's dumb imo. What gives a job an identity is a playstyle that is unique (AST,GNB,DNC to name a few). These jobs STAND OUT because they are unique by design.

Monk's postionals are not what make it unique. They are what hold it back. Dancing around the boss/mob like a moron to play optimally isn't fun to me. There are times when I just become so lazy that I don't even move for positionals just out of protest. True north and RoE are nice, but MAN do I miss that 30 secs from RoE, albeit clunky to activate by getting hit.

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Everyone his/her opinion, but your view to the things is highly casual and more like "I don´t like it, please change." The first thing i thought when i read this once again, go play diablo. It´s a mobsmasher where you can do whatever you want with any class. Playing monk there is a lot of fun to and you don´t have to care about anything a handful of skills you choose by your own.

What you claim to be "unique" is far away from being it. Pretty much any major class works the same, just with some unique buttons spread on the subclasses, which doesn´t even differentiate in the core gameplay that much.

- All tanks got dumb´d down, have nearly the same defs (next to mag/phy inscriptions) and all have them has 1 damagebuff and playing 123 until their burstwindow comes up. The differences are negatable. 2 have permanent damagebuffs, the other point&click CD. One has more magical defs, another one more lifesteal, the next blockchance, the last pretty much everything you want. PLD/WAR/DRK has 5x 1 button spam meanwhile GNB has a 142434 burst attack. Nothing is real unique between them, such a difference between animations.

- Healers the same. A handful of single / aoe heals and off-heals. 1 groupshield which works slightly different. SCH has 2 similar pets (thx to the dumb down) which assists a little bit but can´t do more. AST has the cards (which got dumb´d down). WHM some nice selfbuffs and a full heal. But that doesn´t change the playstyle that much. All of them keep up a dot effect and spam 1 other attack until they´ve to heal. There is only a little difference in mobility made up by casting times, which is needed otherwise AST wouldn´t be able to use the cards. But having a unique playstyle is something else.
(The probably most unique thing on AST is the choice to choose between hots or shields compared to the other healers, but that is doomed once again with 6.0.)

continue...


- Phys. ranges are the same either. Running around as you want and do what you want, whenever you want to do it. 1 just goes for damage and spams off gcd´s. The other relies on dot proccs and group buffs. The last one more on another dps in the group. But calling it unique to press "dance into 1342" or whatever is shown every couple of minutes, is again... nothing what i can call a unique playstyle. It´s a feature and instead of pressing 1 button to buff the whole group, you press a handful of lightning buttons next to your standard 123 procc depended rotation. It´s such a simple design and nothing which forces the player under pressure or let them enjoy a real unique game experience.


Now we come the positionals. To play them permanently IS a unique design choice and change the playstyle completely. There are overall much more thoughts put on the melee and magical dps. MNK has permanent positionals and is the only class without a range attack. RDM has range and melee combos, which is definately unique. NIN has a teleport, stealth and ninjutsu you can use by your own choice. BLM is pretty much static compared to any other class and have to adjust the rotation based on proccs and mechanics.
Only DRG, SMN and SAM are pretty standard melee/magical dps. Pretty sad to say that about SMN since they could be so cool, but you just stuck on 1 egi mostly, because damage is everything in this game. They could even get ride of it and put some potency on some other nameless off gcd´s like they did on MNK. SMN is fine to play, but not worth to be called like that. SAM´s unique experience is probably a high midare burst, like wow... DRG has atleast a soul in his kit which fits the class and backgroundstory.

That said, MNK was (still is in some way) more of a unique gameplay experience next to a lot of other classes and positionals definately don´t hold him back. If you don´t like to play them, then you´ve 2 choices:

- be lazy and lose a minimum of 10% max. dps.
- don´t play MNK.

And for me and tons of others, nothing could be more boring than being static on a boss in a forgivable, item based 100% rotation game like FF14 is. To dumb down one class after another IS NOT a good thing. The game is predictable in a lot of ways, the most content doesn´t even need a real tactic or anything. The only good design choice in the current tier is, that healers actually have to be healers in E11/12s and medigation has to be on point to survive. More of that is needed in the future to go away from the full dmg healers/tanks. Other stuff is far away from being that MMO teamchallenge or unique class experience.

[QUOTE=ssunny2008;5501944
- be lazy and lose a minimum of 10% max. dps.
- don´t play MNK.

And for me and tons of others, nothing could be more boring than being static on a boss in a forgivable, item based 100% rotation game like FF14 is. To dumb down one class after another IS NOT a good thing. The game is predictable in a lot of ways, the most content doesn´t even need a real tactic or anything. The only good design choice in the current tier is, that healers actually have to be healers in E11/12s and medigation has to be on point to survive. More of that is needed in the future to go away from the full dmg healers/tanks. Other stuff is far away from being that MMO teamchallenge or unique class experience.[/QUOTE]

All good points!

I fail to see how your static on a boss, when there are numerous mechanics that get in the way. In the case of monk (which WAS unique with GL uptime) had to be engaged with the boss to generate more GL. Compound this with positional's, AOE, mechanics, with GL? GL was the one thing that needed to be abolished to not change EVERYTHING else for one job. That's the past now. Look towards the future.

Your argument is based on Monk HAS to move around like a moron to be unique. Pretty loose argument. That's like saying Paladin has to jump twice to block. Silly.

I will NEVER accept the idea to make a class compelling is to just implement FORCEING me to move around to play better. I will however accept adding more mechanics the support the job/class I like. DNC is compelling, RDM is compelling, MCH is compelling, although I don't fully enjoy the style each of those offer, yet NONE of those need positionals to be compelling. I like monk. Positionals are a lazy way of forcing you to be engaged. If positionals were removed from NIN I don't think anyone would come back and say PUT THEM BACK IN. Honestly? Ask yourself that question.

I embrace the changes, and have NEVER felt bored playing monk before or after the changes. Frustrated before the changes...yes. Frustrated after...HELL NO! Amazing how that works. I personally get bored on RDM and that's the way it is. I always come back to monk, because I like monk's style. I always bring up the conversation about job identity, but others always bemoan the issue of "monk has deep gameplay don't change it!" or "GL was fine the way it was!". Yet here we are...GL is gone...Monk is changed...and still others looking to the past to keep monk the same, but also cry that it has no evolution.

Just because something is simpler...doesn't make it dumb. I also praise the changes to warrior with Storms eye timer, and nascent simpler to use. Defend it all you want...warrior is easy to pick up and play. I think out of ALL the QOL I want out of any MMO, job, class, UI, controls, systems, I don't want to be frustrated. It keeps me playing. It keeps me happy. And more importantly appreciate REAL change vs. keeping things stuck in the mud.

We only ever had 2.00 Monk, and Tornado Kick Monk. The average player didn't like TK Monk (their loss, TK Monk was fun).

There's no step back with this rework, since there were never any steps forward. Monk never had anything added onto its kit after ARR anyway.

Ignoring TK in SB, Monk is the one job that has never changed in the entirety of the game's lifespan.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I love monk, but it's a domestic abuse relationship.

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Honestly, it's your comparison to domestic freaking abuse that makes me dismiss your opinion about monks more than anything else. It's a videogame, dude.

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Everyone his/her opinion, but your view to the things is highly casual and more like "I don´t like it, please change." The first thing i thought when i read this once again, go play diablo. It´s a mobsmasher where you can do whatever you want with any class. Playing monk there is a lot of fun to and you don´t have to care about anything a handful of skills you choose by your own.

What you claim to be "unique" is far away from being it. Pretty much any major class works the same, just with some unique buttons spread on the subclasses, which doesn´t even differentiate in the core gameplay that much.

- All tanks got dumb´d down, have nearly the same defs (next to mag/phy inscriptions) and all have them has 1 damagebuff and playing 123 until their burstwindow comes up. The differences are negatable. 2 have permanent damagebuffs, the other point&click CD. One has more magical defs, another one more lifesteal, the next blockchance, the last pretty much everything you want. PLD/WAR/DRK has 5x 1 button spam meanwhile GNB has a 142434 burst attack. Nothing is real unique between them, such a difference between animations.

- Healers the same. A handful of single / aoe heals and off-heals. 1 groupshield which works slightly different. SCH has 2 similar pets (thx to the dumb down) which assists a little bit but can´t do more. AST has the cards (which got dumb´d down). WHM some nice selfbuffs and a full heal. But that doesn´t change the playstyle that much. All of them keep up a dot effect and spam 1 other attack until they´ve to heal. There is only a little difference in mobility made up by casting times, which is needed otherwise AST wouldn´t be able to use the cards. But having a unique playstyle is something else.
(The probably most unique thing on AST is the choice to choose between hots or shields compared to the other healers, but that is doomed once again with 6.0.)

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Incredibly well thought-out reply(s). I'm in full agreement.

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Originally Posted by IruruCece

Honestly, it's your comparison to domestic freaking abuse that makes me dismiss your opinion about monks more than anything else. It's a videogame, dude.

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Your taking it literally. Be careful.

This was a joke leaning into the fact that monk has consistently and lowered my expectations. TK during Stromblood was fun...but SE again slapped me around upset that I burned the steak. Then as I lay there reeling SE embraced me saying "I only do this because I care, and want to make you better...."

It's a forum...not everything in here is substantial. Just a way to blow off steam and speak our opinions. I take EVERYTHING in here with a grain of salt. I ignore most (not all) comments designed to elicit an reflex of emotional reaction.

If you can't understand this is to open a dialogue, and place where we can agree and disagree as adults then I suppose SE should just remove the forums all together for fear of it's players not being mature and respecting each other.

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Originally Posted by Luin

We only ever had 2.00 Monk, and Tornado Kick Monk. The average player didn't like TK Monk (their loss, TK Monk was fun).

There's no step back with this rework, since there were never any steps forward. Monk never had anything added onto its kit after ARR anyway.

Ignoring TK in SB, Monk is the one job that has never changed in the entirety of the game's lifespan.

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