Do the Scions know? (Spoilers)

I feel like Mowen and Grenoldt are to be judged on a different standard to "serious" considerations of identities across soul-shards.

If we had counterpart shops which served the same functional purpose as Rowena's collectibles and Gerolt's forge, sure we'd be having some people going "oh they must be fragments of the same soul - Ardbert proves they don't have to look the same as their counterparts" and you could counter-argue that it's not necessarily the case just because they have the same job.

But here, they do look alike and I'm sure it's to be unsubtle about it. Of course it takes a lot of contrivance for a particular soul to be born looking exactly the same as a counterpart soul on another shard at the right time to both be at the same age at this moment... but this is fiction and the writers can make that contrivance if they want to.

If they did it for other important characters and we encountered doubles of other people we knew, then I'd be whining about implausibility. But here I can accept these very utility-based characters being counterpart souls "just because".

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If we had counterpart shops which served the same functional purpose as Rowena's collectibles and Gerolt's forge, sure we'd be having some people going "oh they must be fragments of the same soul - Ardbert proves they don't have to look the same as their counterparts" and you could counter-argue that it's not necessarily the case just because they have the same job.

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My point is that their appearances are just one of several extremely clear indications that they're of the same soul. If you look at all the characters we suspect to share souls, they usually share a number of traits. The idea here is that we've yet to see anybody that's been suggested or speculated to share souls wildly differing from each other, in the sense that it's clear the soul really is irrelevant to who someone is on every level.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Eh except when we use the crystal during the Elidibus fight in 5.3 we hear emet Selch specifically state that Azem was his dearest friend and Hythlodaeus said that that crystal was back were it belongs when he first gave it to us.



Edit: Also, if memory serves me correctly the Scions or some of them have basically said that it didn't matter who we were in the past or if someone else was split from our soul, we are who we are currently. Nothing more nothing less. Same thing when Seto said our souls where Strikingly similar to Ardbert's.

Im sure they most likely know whats going on they just completely refuse to comment on it as it isn't "who we are in the here and now"

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I had forgotten Hyth says a friend made one and then starts using gendered terms. I still don't think we've told them that at one point in time we were Azem. Even if they're mostly hey we'll have your back no matter what the fact that I still feel as though both Urianger and Y'shtola would have wanted to bring it up or use some memory exploring crystals. Since we currently still don't know why our past self said no to both groups.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

How do we know Grenoldt is a soul fragment of the same soul as Gerolt? How do we know Mowen is a soul fragment of the same soul as Rowena?

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They aren't the devs already said we wouldn't be meeting this shards version of this and that person. You all have to remember most of the first's population is already dead or a sin eater.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The fact that these people are similar to counterparts on the First is not an indicator that they share souls. In fact, the one undeniable instance of shared souls we know about (the WoL and Ardbert) would indicate that people with shared souls are NOT similar in appearance. (That is, unless you created your WoL to look just like Ardbert, I suppose.)

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Yes, I know this feeling, as I have my avatar to look like Ardbert after 3.4. I originally have as much as possible close to Deplander in the trailers (I am lazy at character creation pages). After 3.4, I tweaked it a bit to look more like Ardbert, as I like that character. I keep telling my FC mates going through the MSQ if they have met already my twin. Little did I know what will happen in 5.x. Having the same appearance as he is going through the 5.x MSQ, it made me felt MORE the fact that we are from the same soul. Note the word MORE, I am not saying it is any different if a player's avatar looks completely different than Ardbert. I actually agree that people with similar counterparts is not an indicator that they share souls, it just makes it more empathic if they are, especially if it is your avatar and a story NPC.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

My point is that their appearances are just one of several extremely clear indications that they're of the same soul. If you look at all the characters we suspect to share souls, they usually share a number of traits. The idea here is that we've yet to see anybody that's been suggested or speculated to share souls wildly differing from each other, in the sense that it's clear the soul really is irrelevant to who someone is on every level.

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Rowena is a cut-throat ruthless businesswoman who reportedly fully intends to take a seat on Ul'dah's Syndicate, and sees little difference between goods and people when it comes to making more money.

Mowen is a newcomer to the business of dealing in tomestones, and expressly intends to give back what profits she has to improve the lives of everyone, both around her and beyond.

They are literally the opposite in personality.

EDIT: To clarify, I think the writers certainly intended an implication that Rowena and Mowen share the same soul. However, I don't think it's intended to be an ontological rule that people sharing the same soul would also share close similarities. Instead, I think it's just a running gag, along with Gerolt/Grenoldt and the Wandering Minstrel/Minstrelling Wanderer.

As for a clear example of the soul not defining who a person is, the obvious answer is Ryne.

I wonder if we have just been over thinking Mowen and Grenoldt. They most likely exist for a future relic quest line on the 1st.

And the void quests are clearly setting up side content for 6.0 or beyond.

What are the odds we do "exploratory" missions into the 13th to gather information and rare materials to begin the process of saving the void and make rare weapons in the process? Eureka 3.0 anyone?

Or the next deep dungeon is a floor by floor exploration of the 13th supported by the crew on the 1st and funded by Mowen?

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Originally Posted by Veloran

My point is that their appearances are just one of several extremely clear indications that they're of the same soul. If you look at all the characters we suspect to share souls, they usually share a number of traits. The idea here is that we've yet to see anybody that's been suggested or speculated to share souls wildly differing from each other, in the sense that it's clear the soul really is irrelevant to who someone is on every level.

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If not for the fact that we had an interview expressly warning us not to assume that "meeting similar people" does not equal "these people have shared souls", I might have even been agreeing with you.

As it stands, though, the similarities of these characters are apparently meant to be a Pokemon-esque "Nurse Jenny" kind of thing - similar people in similar roles either as a tongue-in-cheek gag or to ease player expectations of who to go to for certain game functions, or both.

If the game ever explicitly links these people, then fine. Until then, I'm going to go with the interview and not assume. There is one, and only one confirmed example of a shared soul, and that's the WoL/Ardbert. All others are speculation at best. Even Ryne is unclear - I don't think that it was ever stated that the girls "gifted" by Minfillia were Minfillia's soul-shard counterparts. They could have been randomly-selected girls, for all we know.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Even Ryne is unclear - I don't think that it was ever stated that the girls "gifted" by Minfillia were Minfillia's soul-shard counterparts. They could have been randomly-selected girls, for all we know.

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This is true. It is unclear if Ryne is/was another part of Minfilia's soul, or if it was just Minfilia using her "Ascian-like" powers to control random girls, in limited capacity. Based on the clues we are given, Ryne being a part of Minfilia's soul makes the most sense, since Minfilia said, one of them would cease to exist; and we know that once Ardbert merged with us he ceased to exist as an individual. Plus it stands to reason that controlling a part of yourself is easier than controlling someone else. There is also the fact that Ryne has become the new "soul jar". Though how that would function with her on the first is unknown. Hopefully, that means she'll come to the source, I would love to see F'lhaminn fawn all over her.

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Rowena is a cut-throat ruthless businesswoman who reportedly fully intends to take a seat on Ul'dah's Syndicate, and sees little difference between goods and people when it comes to making more money.

Mowen is a newcomer to the business of dealing in tomestones, and expressly intends to give back what profits she has to improve the lives of everyone, both around her and beyond.

They are literally the opposite in personality.

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I'm not really sure how you reached that conclusion? Mowen also pays all those in her employ with monopoly money that can only be spent with her own business, while skimming off the top of every sale. She's exactly like Rowena, who similarly likes to give her enterprise good PR with things like "The Center for Cultural Promotion".

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If not for the fact that we had an interview expressly warning us not to assume that "meeting similar people" does not equal "these people have shared souls", I might have even been agreeing with you.

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All they said was that characters being similar does not "necessarily" mean they have the same souls. That doesn't mean similarities aren't evidence towards sharing souls. I'll also note that developer statements haven't exactly always been the most reliable things in the world. "Ending the Garlean Empire Once and For All" in the fanfest prior to Shadowbringers springs to mind here, or Yoshi's statements about FC and private housing totally being different, and more besides. Basically it was just to give them some flexibility and not have to directly address the issue.