A better idea for dungeons besides speed run.

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Originally Posted by fusional

after 300+ speed runs, and still waiting for my corselet, i'm pretty sure i just want to rush through it. and i'm pretty sure i've just wanted to rush through it for the last 200 runs prior (incidentally- also around the time i stopped enjoying it).

so. yeah.

speak for yourself.

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That's not the point.

For any given drop rate, you'll have more drops with speed runs- you'll do more runs. No problem with that.

Now, making speed run a pre-requesite for drop is a totally different problem.

Point is that there should be other (more enjoyable) ways to obtain all the chests.

This latest patch has pissed a lot of people off and broke up several linkshells. No one is logging in anymore and the ones that do are crafting. This patch destroyed relationships within the first week. Something needs to change.

We shouldn't be telling these guys what to do. They get paid to come up with ideas and implement them. We are paying them to form our ideas so they can pawn it off as their own. It's really sad. They have lost all creativity and wait for us to gripe about whatever it is they thought was great to them only to see that we all hate it. Then they spend the next 30 days patching crap.

I'm personally sick of these parlor tricks they're doing in the mean time while 2.0 is being worked on. We are playing this content, paying a monthly fee, running through this so called content with no purpose at all. Why are we running through these dungeons.. there is no story. You run in and kill stuff, you come out losers or winners. cool, whats the point? There isn't one. Just a year's worth of filler crap until 2.0 hits.

I'll say this; 2.0 better blow our freakin' minds. If 2.0 is anything close to what we currently have, it will die on day one. Mark my words. You guys better hope you have something great going on behind those tightly sealed doors of yours.

Diablo III, Tera, Dark Souls PC, Guild Wars 2 are all knocking on the door and just may steal 2.0's thunder.

Please prove me wrong.

Make incapacitating the main boss drop the 5th chest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fusional

after 300+ speed runs, and still waiting for my corselet, i'm pretty sure i just want to rush through it. and i'm pretty sure i've just wanted to rush through it for the last 200 runs prior (incidentally- also around the time i stopped enjoying it).

so. yeah.

speak for yourself.

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You completely missed the point. The point is we want a different method on obtaining the 5th tier chest. You could still speed run it for all we care, but it shouldn't be a requirement to gain the last chest.

as long as the requirement for getting the 5th chest is actually difficult. so far it just sounds like you guys want to make it even easier

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Originally Posted by fusional

as long as the requirement for getting the 5th chest is actually difficult. so far it just sounds like you guys want to make it even easier

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some people do want it easy mode

some of us just dont want it to be straight elitist where you need to have the fastest group possible as the main requirement to get it


you can easily make fights harder or add more mechanics instead of requiring you to just do them fast

I'm fine with speed runs existing, but I think they should be for achievements only. 5th chests should be difficult, but not based on speed runs. Maybe make certain conditions that will allow for bosses to have a hard mode. I like the idea of having objectives that are optional within the dungeon that would activate a sort of "normal" mode on the boss.

If you skip that objective, you'd face the hard mode of the boss, and would be able to get the 5th chest by killing him.

But in general, I don't like feeling rushed. It would be nice to just take my time through an instance for once. Kill enemies, have fun, not always feel like I need to put the lead out so we can make our speed run.

I posted an idea while the game was still in beta for a dungeon concept that worked more on a stamina system rather then time based in which all Disciplines could be involved.

The main idea was DoW/M would act as bodyguards for the DoL/H since their knowledge could be needed to either interpret something or to use something within the dungeon or unlock hidden areas.

With the current game concept I'd say that an Explorative dungeon there would be two parties types, you have the DoW/M party the (Battle) group comprised of 8 members and then another party comprised of up to 4 DoL/H called the (Support) party. The dungeons would work in a concept similar to Assault in which depending on the quest you are doing at the time the inside of the dungeon may change or perhaps hidden areas will be available for discovery with the right DoL/DoH class helping you.

The most basic of this concept is a 3 stage story involving a run down gold mine in which pirates have claimed it in hopes to hit a high deposit or gold ore to make gil off of. However since the mine is still owned by Ul'dah you are sent in to eliminate the pirates and stop them from claiming the gold. The quest ends upon the main pirate boss getting back up and with the last of his energy running to the back of the room and breaking down the last bit of rock, the darkness surrounding the unknown room sends an eerie chill down the adventurers back then suddenly bright eyes emit from the dark room and a horde of spiders engulf the pirate. The spiders begin to chase after you but your party realizes that the odds are to stacked against you can you fall back to report what has happened.

The next quest has you using torches to light up the dungeon in hopes of eliminating the spider horde one by one. After pushing through the hordes of spider you find yourself to the Queen and upon beating her the exit behind you caves in and you find yourself trapped within the mine. -quest ends here to act as a save point-

Upon starting the mine instance again you find yourself back where you had defeated the spider and now seek to find a way to get out of the cursed mine, with this quest line there is a lot of room to find secrets with your support group and you may even find out the true culprit that allowed such a horde of spiders to live for as long as they did in such a confined room.

Overall this idea is to have each dungeon have numbers of variables to the, rather then being the same thing over and over again, attach a story to them and have the stories branch out in which the path you take may open up a new quest line that changes the dungeon in completely different way upon entering item in which you may be able to find hidden passages or rare materia/workshops.
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Basically for DoL/H their means of support would be through the follwing, DoH could find ancient workshops which when succesfully solved can either unlock hidden passages or pass on lost knowledge to the user granting them with a new synthing recipe. DoL could find hidden passages and traps, Botanist could sense the ground, Miners the wall and Fishermen would sense for water.
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When it comes to stamina the general idea is fighting smarter would save you stamina rather then fighting recklessly, aka dying would impose a stamina decrease and when stamina hits a certain amount your party would be forced to retreat from the dungeon so acting outside the group would not be recommended. Other things that could be added could be the ability to reach "save points" within a dungeon if they are long or if you are running low on stamina. They could act like tents in which you rest for the night but you wouldn't be able to start the dungeon again right away, this concept mainly goes for those with a static group in which more of a pickup group wouldn't be in dungeons taht take this long to do lol.

I had a lot more to this idea but it's pretty complex and I highly doubt they would ever have the resources to produce content of this caliber, while it would be neat to have dungeons with multiple layers to them, odds are each dungeon will be a one trick pony to an extent, while sure the lv 30 dungeon has "variables" to it they aren't at the same level and you're pretty much determined to reach the "toughest" one since that one would logically grant the best loot each time you do it.

I would love it if a dungeon could have different quest attached to it and branching stories in which the stories progression changes the dungeon and you're free to redo a past part of the dungeon to aim for loot but it would offer a nice immersive experience in which people wouldn't feel like they are doing the same thing over and over and over again and it would also be a way to involve DoL/H into the mix to work alongside their DoW/M adventurers. I'd explain more of the idea but I think the above gives a general idea of how it would work, you can imagine the rest lol.

well said foxbat, short and sweet and on point

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

some people do want it easy mode

some of us just dont want it to be straight elitist where you need to have the fastest group possible as the main requirement to get it


you can easily make fights harder or add more mechanics instead of requiring you to just do them fast

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This. There are a lot of ways you can make it difficult and not make it a speed run. As I said before, speed runs are just a lazy way of making things challenging.