Skill level necessary to clear HW MSQ content

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Originally Posted by Townowi

It's still early-ish, and I haven't run Leviathan yet (but Leviathan is next), so I still have time to address gearing before going into HW. And, given my history of messing up mechanics in key MSQ fights (Ifrit HM, Titan HM and Thornmarch) it's a safe bet that I really need to shore up that portion of what I called "skill". In fact I may wish to revisit these MSQ fights before tackling Leviathan until I master all three of these, and even run their EX once I have made some gearing progress.

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A lot of the "skill" that is needed does NOT carry over between fights, since it consists of knowing the mechanics and timing of each fight.
Some mechanic you will encounter in many fights, but it really does not matter which fights you do to practice "avoid AOE attacks".

I realize now that you say this, but ifrit HM and Titan HM (as well as Garuda hm) are optional and were tuned higher than the other hard mode fights of the era, they were strictly required for relic at their onset and the other trials like thornmarch, leviathan, etc are much more in line with difficulty of future hard modes. MSQ trials and dungeons tend to be easier to access for the majority while optional content like coil and EX are for the people pushing themselves and are not a viable gear path while leveling. I wish you luck in your endeavor to find people willing to do any of this content sync’d as the majority prefer to run this at max level to steamroll it quickly.

And Normal Coils of Bahamut then? How much harder is normal Coil compared to HW MSQ trials? Maybe I am willing to settle for normal Coil if savage was excessive...

(Assume 115-120 i-lvl for normal Coil)

Finally the reason why I didn't mention Garuda HM was that I feel much more consistent about her than Ifrit or Titan, especially once I get my gear in order.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

And Normal Coils of Bahamut then? How much harder is normal Coil compared to HW MSQ trials? Maybe I am willing to settle for normal Coil if savage was excessive...

(Assume 115-120 i-lvl for normal Coil)

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There is no "normal Coil". It has one unlabelled difficulty, which equates to Savage.

For someone new to EX, which one do you recommend to start with, Garuda, Leviathan, Ultima Weapon or Thornmarch?

I won't start any of them until I can both consistently run these story primals and fix my gear problems in full.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

For someone new to EX, which one do you recommend to start with, Garuda, Leviathan, Ultima Weapon or Thornmarch?

I won't start any of them until I can both consistently run these story primals and fix my gear problems in full.

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Listen here sweety.
All the MSQ content you have to do can be completed with the gear you get via the MSQ and in your case by summoning an egi and spam Ruin (minimum requirement, not recommended, you should learn how to play SMN, makes it much easier).
There is nothing in the Ex trials or Coil that will teach you anything you will need for the MSQ.
The only thing you have to learn is to dodge telegraphed AoEs by leaving the orange marked area before it vanishes and the coresponding cast bar finishes.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

You were the one suggesting that (or at least appearing to suggest it), though. Thus my comment was directed at you.

Hasrat said there was no need to do hard content just to learn specific telegraphs. You responded that there's value in learning the "early fights" before moving onto later ones - which in the context of OP's intent means you're saying there's specific value in learning those "earlier" EX fights so you'll recognise the mechanics before moving onto "later" Heavensward. Which isn't any more logical than learning them at whatever future point you first encounter them because it isn't any easier to learn then in one place or another.

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Right.
He said there was no need to do them.
I said "sure, but if OP wants to do them there IS still value in doing them."
I never said anyone had to do anything, just pointed out some pros.

If you read a few pages back you'll see I've also been posting that you don't have to do them to "get ready" for Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by Townowi

For someone new to EX, which one do you recommend to start with, Garuda, Leviathan, Ultima Weapon or Thornmarch?

I won't start any of them until I can both consistently run these story primals and fix my gear problems in full.

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...EX primals are not "story primals".

Are you sure you're talking about EX primals? Or MSQ Hard primals?

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Originally Posted by Townowi

For someone new to EX, which one do you recommend to start with, Garuda, Leviathan, Ultima Weapon or Thornmarch?

I won't start any of them until I can both consistently run these story primals and fix my gear problems in full.

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Garuda, as the 1st released Extreme trial, is by definition the easiest, as you can vastly outgear the fight's minimum required item level and thus fail quite a few mechanics before it becomes unrecoverable.

However, as has been said before, the mechanical complexity and punishments of Extreme trials is VASTLY greater than any main-scenario required instanced duty. Getting used to what is required for Extreme will make you realise that most MSQ content is not that difficult in comparison. Not that I am against self-improvement, but if reaching the end of the main-scenario as it is right now is your goal, simply focusing on it will teach you the mechanics you need to recognize.

Also the fact that because they are both 'optional' and 'not in a roulette because the average player wont be able to complete it' (except one, where if people get an extreme trial in that roulette, will most likely abandon ship), q-ing for it directly via duty finder will very likely be an exercise in futility. You will need to set up a Party Finder detailing what you plan to do in the content and hope that some like-minded or helpful individuals will join.

EDIT: Correction, Ultima Weapon is apparently the 1st Extreme.

EDIT2: Also, there are no Extreme trials that are mandatory to complete to progress the story. Garuda, Titan and Ifrit Extreme have a small side story chain associated with them, and some of the info of that chain is later reflected in the story, but is by no means mandatory.

I may be willing to settle for one or two extremes per xpac but I'd rather be running the extreme(s) that provides the best gauge for the following xpac. For obvious reasons, synched is a much better gauge than unsynched regardless of the extreme that serves as a gauge.

That said, which ARR extreme(s) is most representative of HW readiness? If applicable, answer healing first and DPS second: pick only extremes of primals that were previously fought in the MSQ.

And I would also like to know which HW and SB extremes are most representative of SB MSQ and ShB MSQ respectively.

Maybe I am wrong but using EX primals as gauges of xpac readiness also imply dungeon readiness for the same xpac that EX is a gauge for. That's why I kept quiet about dungeon readiness.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

...EX primals are not "story primals".

Are you sure you're talking about EX primals? Or MSQ Hard primals?

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To clarify I really mean that I shouldn't start running EX primals until I get the corresponding MSQ hard primal down consistently and resolve my gear issues.