Is it time to remove dots from the game?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

1575 total potency at the cost of a single Sen, which can be fired off after two GCDs, and grants a stack of meditation is quite possibly one of the biggest utility/damage abilities in the game. SAM is a very symmetrical job, so I honestly don't know what else to make the single Sen other than a DoT, especially one on the level of Higanbana.

It's really not about the simplicity of SAM so much as that both Higanbana and Gokken have enough situations where using them over Setsugekka is the better choice. Plus cone AoE abilities make you evaluate the field for the best target instead of just mindlessly blasting a circular AoE. SAM gets to make use of the majority of its kit no matter what content it is in, and this makes it a really fun job to play. It really is one most well-designed jobs in XIV, and you almost don't want them to even touch it. A good polishing here and there is all it needs.

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You could slap another personal damage buff on it instead of the DoT and it could function the same. Personally I was thinking more of a rework akin to NIN, where sen have more meaning than the number you have at hand. SAM can be awkward / fun to optimize, but the casual level rotation logic absolutely is simplistic.

I was just voicing my opinion that ideally we shouldn't make it even more linear.

If you don't like dots don't play a class with dot management?
I personally like dot classes. :T

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Dots are a boring mechanic unless a job's function or gauge is built around it like brd or BLM. Giving a job a dot for the sake of having it feels pointless

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Paladin's rotation exists because it has a DoT. Without Goring Blade it would have been just spamming Royal Authority combos (followed by Atonement x3) between Requiescat burst windows. With the introduction of the DoT in HW, Paladin actually had a rotation compared to the Rage of Halone spam of ARR.

Dragoon's DoT exists to give a second, if not being the primary reason, to alternate between their 2 combos.

Bard's DoTs are pretty much the foundation of the jobs rotation with pretty much everything else rewarding you for maintaining the DoTs.

These 3 jobs need their DoTs. Thunder is actually one of the abilities most detached from the Black Mage rotation and is in many ways there more as filler during their Umbral Ice phase.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I'd say make them do more damage so it feels like you're including them in your rotation for a reason, instead of just delaying your real rotation for some measly 30 potency ticks.

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DoTs are typically one of your highest potency abilities though, making them any more powerful would make them OP if nothing else changed. SE could remedy this frequent confusion by changing the tooltips to show you the total potency over the course of the duration instead of just the potency per tick.

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Originally Posted by Lersayil

Ironically it's probably the opposite. Higanbana is the only thing keeping the SAM rotation going straight into brain-dead territory. Not sure about you, but repeating the Midare rotation non stop is extremely simplistic and boring to me.

That being said it has nothing to do with it being a DoT, so if they mess with the base 3 sen rotation in other ways I wouldn't care much if they changed it.

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No, I can see the method to the madness: Yukikaze skill combo for 1 sen -> Higanbana -> meikyo shisui-> 2x midare every minute, with normal rotations and kenki skill spam between. It’s....not bad, but I think I would have rather it be an aoe dot, or a buff.. something that isn’t really used on bosses only. Because I mostly do PvE it feels clunky. That’s all!

Pro tip- just use a class without dots.
Or one of those dots that you don't need to upkeep like Nin's terrible Shadowfang rework (that almost everyone hates) or Gunbreaker's.

I'm sorry but removing all dots is a terrible idea and they need to be strong in order to be worth using.

It’s time fir you to unplug your keyboard

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Paladin's rotation exists because it has a DoT. Without Goring Blade it would have been just spamming Royal Authority combos (followed by Atonement x3) between Requiescat burst windows. With the introduction of the DoT in HW, Paladin actually had a rotation compared to the Rage of Halone spam of ARR.

Dragoon's DoT exists to give a second, if not being the primary reason, to alternate between their 2 combos.

Bard's DoTs are pretty much the foundation of the jobs rotation with pretty much everything else rewarding you for maintaining the DoTs.

These 3 jobs need their DoTs. Thunder is actually one of the abilities most detached from the Black Mage rotation and is in many ways there more as filler during their Umbral Ice phase.

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Might as well add Monk to that list. Need to have something other than snap punch to use in Coeurl Form after all.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

This has nothing to do with that.

As for the actual topic, I don't think DoTs should be removed just like I don't think all jobs should have DoTs whenever that topic comes up. Having a variety of jobs that run the gamut from being DoT heavy (BRD, SMN) to non-DoT (RDM) to basic DoTs (NIN, SAM) and even to quasi-DoTs (MCH) is always better.

I personally prefer jobs that have little to no DoT management, but that doesn't mean there aren't those that do and there should exist jobs for both.

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I have a feeling that you didn't get the joke...

They had been removing DoTs though, eve from jobs that are built on them as Flaming Arrow and Miasma II can attest.

With that said. I do think that some jobs need DoTs in other to have a complex rotation, such as SAM, PLD, BLM and DRG. I'd also argue that Healers and BRD should have a way to have AoE DoTs (including the aforementioned skills) but I do think that they a token one is unnecessary since WAR, DRK (Fracture and Scourge were removed), DNC, RDM (both have no DoT), were doing fine without them.

The tl'dr:

• I think certain jobs would use more DoT options, but they already have DoTs to start with to this day
• But I also think jobs moving forward should not have a DoT unless there is an actual point besides just to have it (as were in the case of Tanks not named Paladin)