The Lost City of Amdaphor and the Sineaters

I think that this is idea is making a mountain out of a mole hill. SE clearly just wanted to reuse assets. The evidence for this is that they recolor other monsters that have nothing to do with Light intrinsically, and then tag'em as a Sin Eater and have'em appear on The First. The most recent example is the Sin Eater that Lyna wanted us to kill with her Crystarium Guard so we could motivate them. It's literally a recolored version of The Curator from The Fractal Continuum.

I mean, there's also the fact that a lot of Sin Eaters are just recolored animals that kept their overall form, but became totally corrupted by Light. The bears in Holminster Switch, the manticores, the buuz, and whatever else. It's entirely possible, given that the same races exist on all worlds, that the statues created by Amdapor were just actual creatures or automatons on The Source that are/were present on every shard. These same creatures would be present on The First, and if they were corrupted by Light in the same way that the bears and stuff were, they kept their form when they transformed into Sin Eaters.

Perhaps the White Mages of Amdapor, as powerful in and intimately tied to the Light they were, simply had prophetic dreams? Maybe they innately knew these forms but didn't realize why, and carved these golems in those forms without any real deep thought processes.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

I think that this is idea is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Unlike most cases of reused assets, the Amdapor lore specifically notes that the golems we fight in the Lost City were based on other creatures (transcendent beings from a higher plane, or whatever). It's a big ol' bag of foreshadowing - once we learned about it, it seemed inevitable that we'd eventually learn more about these "transcendent beings". Right now, the Sin Eaters seem to be the most likely origin (even those on the First mistook them as holy beings, at first), and that's why folks have been speculating as to how the Amdaporians could possibly have known about them.

If it's eventually canonically established that there's NO link between the Sin Eaters and the Amdapor golems, then we'll STILL be keeping an eye out for whatever transcendent beings the golems really were modeled after. But I really do think the Sin Eaters are meant to be that answer - so the question now, is, "how?"

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Unlike most cases of reused assets, the Amdapor lore specifically notes that the golems we fight in the Lost City were based on other creatures (transcendent beings from a higher plane, or whatever). It's a big ol' bag of foreshadowing - once we learned about it, it seemed inevitable that we'd eventually learn more about these "transcendent beings". Right now, the Sin Eaters seem to be the most likely origin (even those on the First mistook them as holy beings, at first), and that's why folks have been speculating as to how the Amdaporians could possibly have known about them.

If it's eventually canonically established that there's NO link between the Sin Eaters and the Amdapor golems, then we'll STILL be keeping an eye out for whatever transcendent beings the golems really were modeled after. But I really do think the Sin Eaters are meant to be that answer - so the question now, is, "how?"

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Maybe Eden was on The Source at some point, but honestly if they really tie the two together, it's going to feel rather forced. This is the trouble with retroactively deciding that something is, as you say, " foreshadowing." Even if they're modeled on Sin Eaters in appearance, they aren't Sin Eaters, since they don't do what Sin Eaters do. The only link being appearance, it'll probably get some throw away lines, at best. It's more a case of, "Hey we left this plot thread open ended, so maybe we can do something with it later..."

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Unlike most cases of reused assets, the Amdapor lore specifically notes that the golems we fight in the Lost City were based on other creatures (transcendent beings from a higher plane, or whatever). It's a big ol' bag of foreshadowing - once we learned about it, it seemed inevitable that we'd eventually learn more about these "transcendent beings". Right now, the Sin Eaters seem to be the most likely origin (even those on the First mistook them as holy beings, at first), and that's why folks have been speculating as to how the Amdaporians could possibly have known about them.

If it's eventually canonically established that there's NO link between the Sin Eaters and the Amdapor golems, then we'll STILL be keeping an eye out for whatever transcendent beings the golems really were modeled after. But I really do think the Sin Eaters are meant to be that answer - so the question now, is, "how?"

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The lore about "transcendent beings from another plane" came from the second Encyclopedia Eorzea, which was released when we already knew that the Kuribu-alikes were going to be featured in Shadowbringers (and thus presumably written when the Shadowbringers lore was being created). The first Encyclopedia Eorzea says nothing about where the Lost City Hard soulkin were inspired from.

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Winged Lion

One of many Fifth Astrl Era Amdapori "guardians", these soulkin were carved from solid stone and animated using powerful white magicks for the purpose of defending the ancient city from would-be attackers -- mainly the Mhachi. A winged lionm was chosen for the design so as to engender confusion amongst their enemies.

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Kuribu

Created by the magi of Amdapor using an advanced form of golem construction, this statue is animated by the gems embedded in its chest and hands. Kuribu commands formidable white magicks to aid in its battle against invading voidsent.

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(EE1 pg 294)

Meanwhile, the text from EE2 is as follows:

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Kuribu

Created by Amdapori magi to protect their city, this winged golem is animated by gems infused with the power of white magic. To better contend with voidsent, it is said to have been made in the image of transcendent beings from yet another plane.

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(EE2 pg 150)

So in my opinion, it's a case of "additive retcon" (to borrow Moose's phrase): the link between Kuribu and Sin Eaters is retconned in after the devs decided to use the Kuribu model for powerful Sin Eaters, but it's done in such a way as to add to the existing lore, in this case as a justification for why the Amdapori used that design in combating voidsent. So I don't think it's foreshadowing (whether referring to Sin Eaters or some other beings), but more like post-hoc justification.

I'm a big nerd for Amdapor lore and with the back and forth I feel people are forgetting things irt what lead to the Sixth Calamity: an overuse of magicks.

The First has nothing to do with this, so we're throwing them out. We're also kind of throwing out the Void in this case, but only so far as to say that even without the Void being what it was, the Mhach probably could have created their own Voidsent. After all, all it took on the Void was an overabundance of one elemental aspect seeping into the people of the Thirteenth before they became aether-hungry and transformed (and a little help from the Ascians, of coirse). Who's to say the same wouldn't happen of the opposite, especially with a high amount of "light" or stasis-like magic floating around the Shroud during the Fifth Astral Era? Plus, everyone's fave(?) Ascian gramps said that they were responsible for the rise and fall of large civilizations over the millenia, as well. Who is to say they didn't have a hand in showing the Mhach how to summon out of the Void, and the Amdapori got the opposite to build up that ambient aether?

Having it all run amok up until it started running into just Water for the flood (of water) to hit would have likely turned people into one extreme or the other, which is where my opening statement comes from. As far as the Amdapori would figure, these figures would have been "higher beings" and based their golems on them later because what else would come from their brand of magic? Nothing as grotesque as those nasty Mhachi, that's for sure.

The only way we'll know for sure is if we a) get more info in 5.3 or any further after (even though 5.3 is our "wrap up" patch) or b) we get a FFXI Wings of the Goddess-style xpac where we go back to that point in time to see what really unfolded (which is doubtful but it would make me real happy for more War of the Magi lore) or c) more info is forthcoming in a third EE, which would be fantastic.

Sooooooooo are they connected or what?

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Sooooooooo are they connected or what?

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Yes...and no.

On the one hand, Amdapor did clearly model the Kuribu statures off of the Forgiven Hypocrisy. But OTOH that is the to the "known" extent of it,compared to the Mhachi using Voidsent both as tools and as batteries. Unless we learn more about their connection we are left to assume that the Sin Eaters did not factor in the War of the Magi at all

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Originally Posted by Haruka_R

Sooooooooo are they connected or what?

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At most we can assume the Sin Eaters as we understand them are identical across the shards. It's very possible that there have been Sin Eaters that came into existence on the Source at some point and that is what the constructs of Amdaphor were based on. Whether there were actual Sin Eaters involved like the Voidsent in the War of the Magi is not really clear.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

At most we can assume the Sin Eaters as we understand them are identical across the shards. It's very possible that there have been Sin Eaters that came into existence on the Source at some point and that is what the constructs of Amdaphor were based on. Whether there were actual Sin Eaters involved like the Voidsent in the War of the Magi is not really clear.

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Part of the problem is Shadowbringers still hasn't explained where Eden came from, and why it beget the Flood of Light and sin eaters.