Fix AST's Accessibility Issue

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Originally Posted by Side-Eye

Squeenix could have kept the flavor of the old cards and simply made each better at its purpose, and given Spire a purpose to replace TP. And if they were going to kill off RR/spread, they could have attached a minor DPS boost to each of the cards so that they could provide their original benefits and still be useful on a recipient even if the original benefit wasn't particularly needed at the moment.

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Well, for example, SE quite literally doubled the potency of bole, and people still found it to be useless.

So... how would you change it to make it useful? Either you make it not RNG (which means removing it from the card system), or you make it so powerful it breaks the game and lets you flat out ignore mechanics. Not quite as simple as "just make it better", is it?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, for example, SE quite literally doubled the potency of bole, and people still found it to be useless.

So... how would you change it to make it useful? Either you make it not RNG (which means removing it from the card system), or you make it so powerful it breaks the game and lets you flat out ignore mechanics. Not quite as simple as "just make it better", is it?

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You can just keep the old cards but have the new Lady/Lord system, since lady/lord guarantees a dps increase effect on any card.

Funny enough as bad is astro is in feeling to play it’s still way more fun to play then white mage. And i still love whm. But it’s just so boring in comparison too astro.

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Originally Posted by HyperiusUltima

You make a valid point. I wasn't sure if it was a viable way for balance, but AST has been lacking in the MP management department since the other two healers have better management. Especially in regards to N.AST, which needs the extra MP. If 1k MP is that much, they could simply just make it 500 MP since that's what a Aetherflow is for SCH. Though in hindsight, we already have WHM that has a ridiculous amount of MP Management(Infinite MP for 12s, Free GCD Healing, Free Instant Cast, etc.) while SCH has to manage a fairy while on GCD and their Aetherflow which is all oGCD.

My guess is what you're trying to say is that if we go over the top on MP Recovery, we basically nullify an issue Healers SHOULD have by design: Running out of Resources, and on top of that people would prefer AST/SCH since N.AST isn't in the best of spots. It doesn't invalidate AST/WHM, either though, but it would make AST a bit more appealing to the raid crowd by doing that simply because of the DPS that MP can provide for certain jobs(extra Despair for BLM in particular should the stars align, since I think limit on MP for it is 1000).

Edit: Also, thanks for clearing that up for me.

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I would say that the issue is less the MP recovery is excessive for AST specifically—it’s that its excessive to have it be restored to the entire party. I don’t see this suggestion having much use without being a waste in the majority of scenarios.

The only people that use MP now are healers (which, WHM doesn’t have a terrible MP economy anymore, and they already have so many MP management tools at their disposal that it’s hard to run dry unless something is going terribly wrong terribly fast) and casters (MP is literally not a problem for a BLM since they have mega MP regen in Umbral Ice). BRD no longer uses it. MCH stopped using it after HW. DNC doesn’t use it. Melee don’t use it. The only tanks that use it are DRK and PLD (with only one of those requiring active MP management, and the other just following their base rotation to recover their mana after spending it all). It just seems excessive to have a party-wide MP recovery tool.

To alleviate AST’s MP issues, I’d rather the return of old Ewer, or the implementation of a system where Draw restores a bit of MP with each use—similar to Aetherflow. I wouldn’t recommend a party-wide MP Refresh when the number of jobs that actually use the resource isn’t the majority.

I mean I play on controller and don't use macros for ast, it's not that hard to play any healer on controller for me anyway and I'm not some god of xiv

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

I mean I play on controller and don't use macros for ast, it's not that hard to play any healer on controller for me anyway and I'm not some god of xiv

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The problem stems when you try to do it optimally. As a k+m user, I can't handle AST when sleeve draw comes up, especially in the opener, it's just awful. I'd honestly hate to see anyone try and be optimal on a controller with the amount you'd have to target swap.

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Originally Posted by NealSnow

I mean I play on controller and don't use macros for ast, it's not that hard to play any healer on controller for me anyway and I'm not some god of xiv

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Are you playing to be as optimal as you can be while on Ast or are you just playing Ast?

The former is where the issues are really apparent while the latter is where you barely notice it.

3 seal(different) Divination while up keeping gcds gets very messy with how controller players have to target players, play card, draw/sleeve draw, redraw if needed and retarget boss, all between the 2nd and 5th gcd between the 1st and 2nd are other weaves on top of the draw one.
-takes up to 4 dpad presses for people in party list
-then another x press for boss retargeting (God forbid you have x target be prioritise to players cus that is in you for those additional dpad button presses)
-only overwrite a card with lord/lady but even then it is your top opening busters and with card randomised to melee or ranged good luck as your dpad presses are randomised too.

And that is your opener, something you have to do every pull because let's face it only Godka and Neo ever made you immediately drop what you doing and burst heal within 5 gcds, even LL in ultimate gives you enough breathing room to do this opener.

You would be doing this for your raid session if in a group which usually range from 2-8 hours depending on group. Imagine how much pain your fingers are in after that oof. 2 hours of that opener is painful enough and I do mean actually painful I do not suffer any physical disabilities at all I am fortunate in that regard but after a few hours on Ast wiping to Titan phase 1 during a prog day nah not worth it so I decided then to use macros so my fingers don't hurt.

This is why I class ShB as poor design, it looks and feels fine on surface but once you get right into it and try to optimise it it gets ugly fast on controller.

Kicker is Ast isn't even the highest apm, I mained nin in SB so fast actions isn't something i'm adversed to just the sheer volume of it all(mostly the retargeting required) in under 12.5s that makes me hate it with a burning passion.

The only solutions to this is rework ast abilities to not require so much retargeting or rework the targeting system itself and it is something that needs to happen this expansion not 6.0

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, for example, SE quite literally doubled the potency of bole, and people still found it to be useless.

So... how would you change it to make it useful? Either you make it not RNG (which means removing it from the card system), or you make it so powerful it breaks the game and lets you flat out ignore mechanics. Not quite as simple as "just make it better", is it?

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It could be better at its purpose by boosting two caster-centric attributes, so instead of just increasing MP regen, it could also decrease cost, or also make the next two casts MP-free, or also provide a lesser DPS boost, or also add a crit%, or....

I mean, I'm sure you get what I'm saying: there are ways to make a card better at its purpose without making that one boost so big it's game-breaking.
(edit: I mentioned caster stuff as an example but similar thinking can be applied to tank/defensive stuff too; a card need not have a single benefit, but two lessers to be better at its purpose)

I'd say a good way to help with the older card system. Have a way to mitigate RNG at some sort of cost. Say you can force a balance if you want, but the next 2 cards you draw are guaranteed to not be balance. Have that for every card.

To be fair old AST card system was hard on controller as well not because of the cards themselves but the button bloat was getting out of hand lol royal road required an extra button for spread, enhance and extending properties. Also required undraw because of undesirable cards. Time dilation....I had ran out of space in SB.

As for the new system, it’s definitely not controller friendly as I play AST on controller and sometimes the cards become a chore to hand out so I tend to move my two dps to the bottom to select more easily because macro delay is garbage in end game lol

All in all they really need to come up with a better idea for AST in the future, but I will remain the minority I prefer the new card system cause I don’t have to really fish due to lady and lord or crowns.