Dancer Flourish is badly designed and not actually enjoyable to use

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Originally Posted by Raqrie_Tohka

You are almost right, it's quite a personal nitpick. But it seems very messy and not exactly beautiful in concept and usage. Dancer is basically "big downtime with dull rotation that is newcomer friendly" then "technical window where you go ??? disco".
Idk, is that supposed to give people some sort of a kick? Is it supposed to be fun? After the 980th time where your compulsive thingy kicks in because you couldn't fit all 4 procs within technical window without overwriting one?
I just don't see how this is some kind of class design philosophy, or if it is, how it's supposed to be good, and I'm worried about SE and their design department if they design all classes further and further down this road. (But some changes are coming back, so I'm not too worried.)

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Not really. DNC is "use your procs whenever they're available", saving them beyond dungeon trash is a waste of dps.

The only time I'll have full stacks of Fourfold Feathers and Espirit is in Dungeons or when clearing trash in Alliance Raids.

On bosses? Nope, I'm using them whenever they're available to ensure I never lose/overwrite a proc and getting a consistent stream of dps throughout the fight with step finishes being my "burst" moments.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

Not really.
On bosses? Nope, I'm using them whenever they're available to ensure I never lose/overwrite a proc and getting a consistent stream of dps throughout the fight with step finishes being my "burst" moments.

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but thats dps waste as well.... isn't it? if u start a devilment/technical finish without flourish/feathers u lose burst-dps. isn't it the point to hold feather on 3 and saber dance on 80% out of your burst to ensure the max output while your buffed? only using saber/feather to uncap them out of devilment?... just my thoughts...

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Originally Posted by Neela

but thats dps waste as well.... isn't it? if u start a devilment/technical finish without flourish/feathers u lose burst-dps. isn't it the point to hold feather on 3 and saber dance on 80% out of your burst to ensure the max output while your buffed? only using saber/feather to uncap them out of devilment?... just my thoughts...

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This is correct. Feathers are reserved for buff windows (generally Technical Finish, but also windows with other damage buffs - used to, TA was a good feather dump; I've read some comments in the DNC Balance that now question if it's worth it since TA is only 5% or not; some have said blow all but one or two so that you still have some for Tech Finish).

Esprit should generally be dumped at 80, but you can also use a Saber 1 GCD prior to a Flourish to prevent getting unwanted Reverse Cascade/Fountainfall procs. I also personally keep myself below 50 Esprit before entering Technical Finish because of how unpredictable it can be. I don't want to risk overcapping within a GCD of entering TF.

I agree that Dancer is not complicated. It's just busy during its burst phase. The priority doesn't change during the burst in any real way, it just forces a bunch of procs so you're spamming as many of them as possible. It's not a perfect analogy, but I feel they play like a combo of RDM (simple rotation with upgraded procs), NIN (high apm) and old Bard (heavily proc based). None of which is complicated.

"Dancer Flourish is badly designed and not actually enjoyable to use" You forgot "to me."

Don't speak for the entirety of the community.

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Originally Posted by Gula

"Dancer Flourish is badly designed and not actually enjoyable to use" You forgot "to me."

Don't speak for the entirety of the community.

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Saying "to me" would be redundant. It's implied when stating an opinion that it's your opinion unless otherwise stated.

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Originally Posted by WrenElessedil

Saying "to me" would be redundant. It's implied when stating an opinion that it's your opinion unless otherwise stated.

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It wouldn't be redundant. Maybe you and some others take all statements on the internet as opinions. Many don't. And if the thread title was translated, which is how things get pushed to the dev team, who's to say that it'll be taken as the rantings of a somebody or not?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This is correct. Feathers are reserved for buff windows (generally Technical Finish, but also windows with other damage buffs - used to, TA was a good feather dump; I've read some comments in the DNC Balance that now question if it's worth it since TA is only 5% or not; some have said blow all but one or two so that you still have some for Tech Finish).

Esprit should generally be dumped at 80, but you can also use a Saber 1 GCD prior to a Flourish to prevent getting unwanted Reverse Cascade/Fountainfall procs. I also personally keep myself below 50 Esprit before entering Technical Finish because of how unpredictable it can be. I don't want to risk overcapping within a GCD of entering TF.

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aint that a big problem though? since it's making you sit and wait for max feathers, which even with Flourish is very much at the mercy of RNG for how quickly you can actually blow all your burst. This was something they addressed just last patch with RDM because there was no consistency in their burst window timing, DNC has the exact same issue now. Why for me personally, I don't like to rely on waiting for the game to be kind and give our procs so I'll keep a steady tempo going and save devilment/tech for my Partners burst due to how unreliable the DNC burst window timing is.

It's just one of the many issues plaguing the class and keeping it down, give us some consistency and we can synergize our burst with our partners burst, without it you have to make a choice 8/10 times and I'm always going to choose to buff prioritize the "higher dps" class over myself

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

aint that a big problem though? since it's making you sit and wait for max feathers, which even with Flourish is very much at the mercy of RNG for how quickly you can actually blow all your burst. This was something they addressed just last patch with RDM because there was no consistency in their burst window timing, DNC has the exact same issue now. Why for me personally, I don't like to rely on waiting for the game to be kind and give our procs so I'll keep a steady tempo going and save devilment/tech for my Partners burst due to how unreliable the DNC burst window timing is.

It's just one of the many issues plaguing the class and keeping it down, give us some consistency and we can synergize our burst with our partners burst, without it you have to make a choice 8/10 times and I'm always going to choose to buff prioritize the "higher dps" class over myself

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No, it’s not a problem. It’s more damage—Fan Dances with +10% damage buffs (or more depending on which burst window you’re in) are a huge gain over naked feathers used instantly. It also makes the RNG less egregious because you aren’t staring at an empty gauge thinking “where are my feathers at”.

DNC’s burst is not inconsistent—it’s every 120s when Technical Finish and Devilment are up. You should never under any circumstances delay Technical Finish/Devilment. They are used on cooldown unless fight mechanics call for a strategic delay. Technical Finish is 2 mins—it will always line up with other major raid buffs (Trick Attack, Chain Stratagem, Divination, every other Battle Litany and Battle Voice, only Brotherhood is a bit wonky). Holding them for your Partner is likely to cost the raid, therefore it’s better not to hold it because giving +5% to the raid even if your partner isn’t in a burst window is a far larger gain than holding it for their burst. You always synergize with the raid; not with your partner.

DNC is a job built on RNG. If you don’t like RNG, you won’t enjoy the job. Just like SB BRD was a lot of RNG, and RDM is a bit of RNG.

Don't you mean SB MCH? As apparently DNC inherited their previous RNG problem.

As for Esprit, whenever I got 90(this has a tendency to happen about 10s before TS), I have to dump a Saber Dance, but that's ok because it's better than overcapping and that 30k+ dmg out of no where isn't a complaint of mine and I always seem to hit 50 again right in time for Technical Step. /whenallgoesaccordingtoplan