Dear SE, stop homogenizing jobs

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Originally Posted by Reap00

So many drama queens in this thread. Carry on.

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I see people post stuff like this on threads all the time, and I have to ask, what does posting a comment like this add to a conversation? Like, genuinely, what was added to the conversation that wasn't here before?

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I would argue that it is not fun playing a job unwanted in raid because other jobs perform the role better. (War in 2.0, PLD in 3.x, Whm in 3.3+, all of 4.x, SAM in 4.x and 5.0, MCH in 4.x)

Also, jobs have not been homogenized. Roles have. Jobs within a role have to be able to perform the same in certain circumstances or you could be in an instance set up for failure because a certain job isn't there.

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Roles being homogenized = being a DAMAGE-DEALER is the same as being a TANK which is the same as being a HEALER.

That's not quite the case. Even by the most subjective stretch, it's not newly the case.

Healers have mostly been damage-bots with a side of healing since HW, and that trend has deepened only by very mild increments. Tanks, likewise, have largely been "blue DPS" since ARR. DPS having CC responsibilities largely stopped at level 49, apart from select early 50 dungeons, if not earlier, leaving them with mostly just the exact same concerns as the other two roles, but with more complexity in maximizing that long-term output.

On the other hand, jobs have been more severely homogenized across a given role in recent times. There's a very clear difference in the steps between ARR and HW, HW and SB, and now finally SB and ShB, in terms of job diversity within their given role.

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

When you spend the vast majority of your time not healing, and even when you are healing that healing is just spamming the 2 buttons, yeah, they feel the same. Sure, succor has a different effect from medica/cure III, but you're not building for it, you're not having to proc it, it doesn't feel different when I'm using succor vs when I'm using cure III because they don't have anything that differentiates them besides how much they heal, which is a moot point because they both heal enough. So no, they really don't feel any different, the only major difference I can sort of give is that SCH can spam energy drain.

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There's a major difference between those spells. Cure III can only be used in close quarters (6 yalms) and is a 550 potency heal. Succor is a 180 potency heal with a longer range (15 yalms) that gives shields. You're coming up with a false equivalency to try and make your point, but you're only making yourself look absolutely foolish to everybody.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

There's a major difference between those spells. Cure III can only be used in close quarters (6 yalms) and is a 550 potency heal. Succor is a 180 potency heal with a longer range (15 yalms) that gives shields. You're coming up with a false equivalency to try and make your point, but you're only making yourself look absolutely foolish to everybody.

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Care to explain how using Cure III/Medica II feels different from using succor then? outside of the few instances where you can actually use the range on Cure III? Because I genuinely do not see it. Yes, that distance is nice, and it can be great for mechanics like Hello World where you're far away from the team, but those instances are very few and far in-between, especially for normal content. You will end up, in most content, using cure III or medica II where you would use succor, achieving the same effect, with the same feeling, only with different buffs.

Dear forum-goers: Stop asking SE to homogenize the jobs.

I wouldn't have fun being weaker than other jobs just for the sake of being different.

I mean at the end of the day, everyone is capable of playing Ice Mage if they feel like it. Nothing is stopping you from spamming Blizzard III if you wish to smash monsters with only ice.

Fun before balance right? If you subscribe to that, why don't you just go ahead and mash your keys however you feel like? Are we asking for more jobs like Blue Mage? Completely neutered and a husk of a job but is luckily "different" because that's what we all asked for right?

We can stop homogenized classes as soon as people stop asking for balance. People will stop asking for balance when they get over their personal favorite classes not being the nest for a raid tier.

My solution? Make every raid teir use different classes with different strengths. You may go 1 savage tier not playing SAM because it's not needed and 3 casters are. You can have multiple jobs on a character so the only excuse not to pick up another job to do current tier is because you are entitled and whiny.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

We can stop homogenized classes as soon as people stop asking for balance. People will stop asking for balance when they get over their personal favorite classes not being the nest for a raid tier.

My solution? Make every raid teir use different classes with different strengths. You may go 1 savage tier not playing SAM because it's not needed and 3 casters are. You can have multiple jobs on a character so the only excuse not to pick up another job to do current tier is because you are entitled and whiny.

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Perhaps the strength adaptation could mostly be focused on different jobs within the same class structure, so no strength comparisons across melee and casters, but just within the melees, for instance.
This allows you to add variety to both inter-job and inter-class. The jobs will be different in how they adapt to each specific boss, and the classes will be outright different in how they handle certain mechanics of the raid.

I think it's okay for each job in a specific role to have similar skills/abilities, especially for the basic essentials. It's gives the developers an easier time to balance them out. Of course Cure III/Medica II will be similar to Succor. That's their most basic AoE healing skill. Why is that a problem?

But I agree they can be more creative with the jobs, especially right at the post-level 50 range. For example, healers have the same one spam-able damage skill and DoT. While it's incredibly uninspired, I don't think that's the exact problem. The problem is that there's nothing else to compliment it. WHM is probably the odd one out even though it lost Aero III, it has two more reliable damage abilities like Assize and Afflatus Rapture. SCH got Energy Drain back but it lost its DoTs and DoT-spreading techniques, while AST is still pretty bland in dealing damage.

For healing spells. I think each healers' healing kit is pretty unique if you look past the basic healing kit pre-50. There's certain ways they're gained, used/prepared and there's certain moments where they are most useful. WHM has raw healing, very little gimmicks around it. SCH I think has a more technical way of healing compared to the other two. AST is a pretty okayish middle ground of the two.

Im tired of the Gameplay homogenazing WAR and DRK are suffering right now and i don't wanna go to the healers side, SE needs to do It better the quality of the jobs is extremly low this expansión specially with all the simplifications of tanks and healers.