[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

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Originally Posted by mario710

Did you not read the story? The ones who were to be sacrificed were WILLING. What is there to argue? We are diluted shades.

What does it matter though? The calamities will come either way.

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The ones who were sacrificed were willing. The ones meant to be sacrificed to bring them back /were not/. This is what caused Hydaelyn to be summoned in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

I'm pretty sure this guy is trolling, he has to be. Surely people don't think this.



Hidden wordssss.

I think we actually might have created Hydalen if I remember correctly the one 'asican' we see in amaurot had a name that was actually pretty close to the point it seemed like Hydalen was named after them. I am very intrigued none the less to see who we really were!

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I'm trolling for having an opinion that's completely at odds with yours?

How about you abandon that arrogant mindset and accept that not everyone agrees with the way that you think.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Think the OP means something along the lines of we lose but aren't killed. We retreat, go into hiding or something and try to regroup. Avengers: Infinity War style. But when you think about it, Shadowbringers did an excellent job of making us question who really are the good guys, and it's looking more and more that WE may actually be the bad guys. So, in that regard, the bad guys actually did win.

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So what happened at the end of ARR? And like how Ilberd won at the end of HW, kicking off the events of SB? Or how Elibidus Zenos was about to beat us just before ShB?

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Originally Posted by Enla

The ones who were sacrificed were willing. The ones meant to be sacrificed to bring them back /were not/. This is what caused Hydaelyn to be summoned in the first place.

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oops I did it again..

Hydaelyn herself would have required more sacrifices to be summoned though. From what I gathered Hydaelyn was meant to keep Zodiark himself in check, not the population.

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Originally Posted by Enla

The ones who were sacrificed were willing. The ones meant to be sacrificed to bring them back /were not/. This is what caused Hydaelyn to be summoned in the first place.

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I don't recall the story going that way. I could have sworn all of them (except the Hydaelyn summoners) were willing.

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Originally Posted by mario710

Did you not read the story? The ones who were to be sacrificed were WILLING. What is there to argue? We are diluted shades.

What does it matter though? The calamities will come either way.

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No, they wouldn't have. Every calamity happened due to the Ascians. The first calamity was caused by them. They create things with their minds, and if they don't concentrate properly things go array. If a god-like race starts to have a slither of self-doubt then the creation magic responds in kind. The more they worried the more they created the worse scenario and brought it into life with their own magic. To the point, they created their own demise as they thought of their absolute end.

Zodiark more than likely didn't NEED all of those deaths to come into being, nor would he need to be fed lives to continue. Zodiark was brought into the world at fault because the creator felt that sacrifice was needed. They then planned to basically farm 'life' - and sacrifice them to their god to get back those who had perished before. So, killing billions to get back what they had lost.

Edit- Crystal mama was created with some sacrifice, though we do not know how much - probably not nearly enough in scale compared to what Zodiark was chugging.

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Originally Posted by mario710

I'm trolling for having an opinion that's completely at odds with yours?

How about you abandon that arrogant mindset and accept that not everyone agrees with the way that you think.

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Mate, when your mindset is 'If I don't think this person is truly alive, therefore, killing them is fine' then there's an issue, this kind of stuffs gets the FBI knocking on your door.

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Originally Posted by mario710

Did you not read the story? The ones who were to be sacrificed were WILLING. What is there to argue? We are diluted shades.

What does it matter though? The calamities will come either way.

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Yes, I did read the story. The part I was referring to was after the world had stabilized again. Half of their remaining population willingly sacrificed themselves to summon Zodiark, and half of what was left willingly sacrificed themselves to restore life to the land.

And THEN they planned to sacrifice some of THAT life to bring back all of the people who sacrificed themselves. And some people didn't like that, which is why they summoned Hydaelyn. To stop that.

We aren't shades. We're people. Different life, more fragile life, but still life. The whole point of that big climactic cutscene is that it isn't up to the Ascians to decide whether that life is worth preserving. It's our life, our world, our story.

If the calamities come, then they come, but the WoL and every soul that wants to protect the new worlds is darn well gonna try to stop that from happening.

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Originally Posted by mario710

Did you not read the story? The ones who were to be sacrificed were WILLING. What is there to argue? We are diluted shades.

What does it matter though? The calamities will come either way.

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Do you really think it's a good idea to take everything he says at face value? He even warns Alphinaud the Artist and his Assistants that were he to start lying you wouldn't be able to tell it. Even if he isn't outright lying, you can bet that the truth is somewhere between his story and the story of those who summoned Hydaelyn. In fact he even says she'd probably tell you something different. Now I'm not saying everything we witnessed in Amaurot is a lie. I think it's probably mostly true, but not quite the whole story.

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Originally Posted by Gwenorai

No, they wouldn't have. Every calamity happened due to the Ascians. The first calamity was caused by them. They create things with their minds, and if they don't concentrate properly things go array. If a god-like race starts to have a slither of self-doubt then the creation magic responds in kind. The more they worried the more they created the worse scenario and brought it into life with their own magic. To the point, they created their own demise as they thought of their absolute end.

Hydalen was created without the need for sacrifice - correct me if I'm wrong on this - and she was stronger than the being that needed billions of lives to fuel itself. Zodiark more than likely didn't NEED all of those deaths to come into being, nor would he need to be fed lives to continue. Zodiark was brought into the world at fault because the creator felt that sacrifice was needed.

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Maybe I need to touch up on the lore, if that is the case. This is what discussion is for!

As the saying goes, "it was doomed from the start!" I didn't know hydaelyn was summoned without sacrifice, either way both were flawed. Problem with the ascians is they are tempered and will serve in the end at Zodiark's will. Even if they succesfuly brought back the old Zodiark would just demand more and more sacrifice, and more and more calamities would just happen. However, I think hydaelyn tempers others in kind as well. I don't consider either good or evil, but I think they both need to go.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

oops I did it again..

Hydaelyn herself would have required more sacrifices to be summoned though. From what I gathered Hydaelyn was meant to keep Zodiark himself in check, not the population.

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My kingdom for ten characters. D:

Those lives were willing and ultimately needlessly sacrificed because the Ascians couldn't let go. Zodiark as explained in the story isn't all consuming, there's really nothing there that states he /needs/ constant sacrifices or to be kept in check. Just that his powers require sacrifice if called upon. While not outright stated it's pretty firmly hinted that the Amaurotines and the Star would likely have been fine had they not tried to bring back the dead. That act of planned genocide is the only reason Hydaelyn was brought in in the first place.

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Originally Posted by mario710

I don't recall the story going that way. I could have sworn all of them (except the Hydaelyn summoners) were willing.

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They weren't going to sacrifice their own people. It's very clearly stated they were going to kill OTHERS to bring back the dead. Those people were not willing and had no knowledge of them essentially being cultivated to die.