Let's Discuss: WHM's new Lily System

WHM is currently in its best iteration possible with criteria set for this expansion. The lily system isn’t perfect, but it’s very strong. I understand the desire to theory craft better alternatives to the Lily System, but WHM is currently out performing the other two healers. SCH and especially AST need to be tuned up to WHM’s power level before anything else. I’m also of the opinion that WHM doesn’t really need any changes right now, since like I said, it has the best performance right now of the 3

I'm not sure what would be the best way to fix them, but like others have said it's a clunky system that once the ball is rolling you're just waiting for an opportunity to use one. To me a shortened amount of time at least for the first one or maybe be able to gain just the one outside of combat would be nice. Also just having them be oGCD would be nice. Right now I feel like a monk who just lost their stacks after a wipe happens or before you hit the I'm swimming in lilies/next one is almost ready sweet spot. Along with just neededing a buff or another damage action that uses up a lily so that when you are swimming in them you have something to use it on while waiting for a chance to use Solace or Rapture just so that Misery can be built on.

I do not like how the Afflatus heals are spells at all. They feel really awkward to use. They need to be abilities like Lustrate.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

WHM is currently in its best iteration possible with criteria set for this expansion. The lily system isn’t perfect, but it’s very strong. I understand the desire to theory craft better alternatives to the Lily System, but WHM is currently out performing the other two healers. SCH and especially AST need to be tuned up to WHM’s power level before anything else. I’m also of the opinion that WHM doesn’t really need any changes right now, since like I said, it has the best performance right now of the 3

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I'm a SCH/AST main and I'm leveling WHM first for cute wings on SHB. I don't think that this is a very good mindset. We can't really tell if WHM is so much better than the other healers because it still does not have any raid utility, so we can't be sure of how it will perform on raids. Just because WHM, a class the for the entirety of SB expansion was pretty much forgotten, isn't horrible to play atm doesn't mean that SE should ignore it again and we shouldn't discuss/suggest things for it and focus only on AST/SCH.

Yeah, AST/SCH feel terrible to play, but I don't believe that they're BAD healers, they're just boring. And again, just because, as I said, WHM feels better to play doesn't mean that it's fixed and we shouldn't touch it anymore. The healer debate should include all healers, it affects all of them. WHM mains waited years for any sort of "fix" and the class still isn't fixed, I don't know why us, SCH/AST mains should be priority while they're forgotten again.

I disagree with you on the state of AST and SCH. Yes they are boring, but they are also weak by comparison. Of course it’s all too early to judge things, I’m simply saying that AST/SCH need playability changes before actually tuning can begin. I definitely would like improvements to the current WHM.

I genuinely believe ASTs Healing has been overnerfed, and the job is harshly suffering. The potency buffs from each Sect were removed without proper compensation, and there were a flurry of needless nerfs to cooldowns. I.e Synastry on 2 minutes, Collective Unc. 50 potency, the joke of a cooldown called Celestial Opposition. After these issues have been addressed, the actual balancing between each healer can begin.

I redact my suggestions for changing the lilies system. My suggestion was to flip the system so your using dps abilities to build up the blood flower and get a OGCD heal instead of 1 big dps bomb. After getting my whm to 80 I looked at my abilities further and finally realized the synergy and how they are meant to be used. Just in case anyone was following my previous way of thinking let me explain how the system works currently and the thought behind it.

Currently you have 1 single target DPS skill outside of your DoT Dia and that skill is Glare at 300 potency. You should be casting Glare anytime you don't have anyone to heal to maximize your damage. Each afflatus spell costs you 1 gcd worth of damage so a 300 potency loss, however when you expend 3 lilies you get a blood lily allowing you to drop a 900 potency OGCD Afflatus: Misery. This means you gave up 3 Glares equaling 900 potency for a 900 potency attack. You suffer no dps loss for casting these heals with the added benefit of them costing no mana and being instant cast. Sitting on 3 lilies is also not a dps loss as it is assumed you are casting glare instead using those heals. The single target afflatus is equal in healing potency to cure 2 so there is no reason to use cure 2 when you have a lily available. I think where my assumption went wrong before is that I was assuming that misery was a dps increase and therefore needed to build up that blood lily as fast as possible.

PSA: Prioritize using your lilies over other heals, but if you dont need to heal it is ok to sit on lilies as it is not a dps loss to do so

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

I disagree with you on the state of AST and SCH. Yes they are boring, but they are also weak by comparison. Of course it’s all too early to judge things, I’m simply saying that AST/SCH need playability changes before actually tuning can begin. I definitely would like improvements to the current WHM.

I genuinely believe ASTs Healing has been overnerfed, and the job is harshly suffering. The potency buffs from each Sect were removed without proper compensation, and there were a flurry of needless nerfs to cooldowns. I.e Synastry on 2 minutes, Collective Unc. 50 potency, the joke of a cooldown called Celestial Opposition. After these issues have been addressed, the actual balancing between each healer can begin.

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I didn't meet many ASTs yet, but if you think SCH is weak, there's something wrong with your perception. SCH is far and above the best in the healing department right now, with the most complete healing kit. It also deals respectable damage. What playability changes does SCH need in your eyes? That they sit on aether stacks? Well, WHM is pretty much sharing that problem right now, so if you want to change that for SCH, you pretty much have to change that for WHM as well. Do you mean anything else? Because, see; I've seen SCHs shielding for about half the HP bars of the entire group; if you really think that's weak, I really don't get how you can say WHM is so much better since it cannot do anything even remotely comparable. SCHs are also pretty good at patching up the group after damage came in... I don't feel like I have to heal much when paired with a SCH.

As I said, don't know many ASTs yet, so I cannot talk about them. But I honestly think that all healers need adjustments right now, and you cannot just say WHM doesn't need them immediately since they are okay for the most part, or else we get the same situation like we did in Stormblood, when WHM was forgotten and SCH and AST, despite being ridiculously good already, were buffed further and further.

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Originally Posted by Nobuyuki_Sanada

I redact my suggestions for changing the lilies system. My suggestion was to flip the system so your using dps abilities to build up the blood flower and get a OGCD heal instead of 1 big dps bomb. After getting my whm to 80 I looked at my abilities further and finally realized the synergy and how they are meant to be used. Just in case anyone was following my previous way of thinking let me explain how the system works currently and the thought behind it.

Currently you have 1 single target DPS skill outside of your DoT Dia and that skill is Glare at 300 potency. You should be casting Glare anytime you don't have anyone to heal to maximize your damage. Each afflatus spell costs you 1 gcd worth of damage so a 300 potency loss, however when you expend 3 lilies you get a blood lily allowing you to drop a 900 potency OGCD Afflatus: Misery. This means you gave up 3 Glares equaling 900 potency for a 900 potency attack. You suffer no dps loss for casting these heals with the added benefit of them costing no mana and being instant cast. Sitting on 3 lilies is also not a dps loss as it is assumed you are casting glare instead using those heals. The single target afflatus is equal in healing potency to cure 2 so there is no reason to use cure 2 when you have a lily available. I think where my assumption went wrong before is that I was assuming that misery was a dps increase and therefore needed to build up that blood lily as fast as possible.

PSA: Prioritize using your lilies over other heals, but if you dont need to heal it is ok to sit on lilies as it is not a dps loss to do so

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You would be right... if Misery was oGCD. It's not, however, meaning you are actually loosing 300 potency if you do that because 4x Glare = 1400. So by just spamming glare and using your oGCD healing, you ultimately deal more damage than using Misery. Misery is mostly good for when you have to heal on the run, or get a phase when you cannot attack anything and can just dump lilies for Misery, e.g. when Titania summons the big adds, or when Innocence makes himself invulnerable. That's pretty much it.

So first off, 4 glares equals 1200 potency... using a GCD or two for healing is inevitable in any current encounter, and the lily system alleviates that by giving you a partial return on the damage you lost. That’s why it’s decent right now. Healing on the move for no MP cost. Over the course of 3 lilies, you’ve only lost 1 GCD of DPS. That’s very good.

And I specifically spoke about AST and it’s weaknesses in my post, but you chose to highlight SCH. Of the 3 healers, AST definitely got the shortest stick, followed by SCH who lost the most of any job this expansion.

All 3 healers need changes sure. I’m just saying that when the raid tier is released, WHMs won’t be the one’s struggling in savage content. SCH won’t necessarily struggle either. But ASTs setup time and use of cards is very clunky as of now, along with also having noticeably weaker healing output. The balance patch in 2 weeks will be aimed at tuning each healer for raiding, and currently I believe AST is in need of the most help.

I'm fine with lilies outside of two points.

First, I'd really like the lily abilities to be off the global cooldown. It just feels too clunky on the gcd.

Secondly, I would be happier if the whole blood lily thing went away and we could just use lilies for Misery when we don't need to heal.

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Originally Posted by IllyaPrisma

So first off, 4 glares equals 1200 potency... using a GCD or two for healing is inevitable in any current encounter, and the lily system alleviates that by giving you a partial return on the damage you lost. That’s why it’s decent right now. Healing on the move for no MP cost. Over the course of 3 lilies, you’ve only lost 1 GCD of DPS. That’s very good.

And I specifically spoke about AST and it’s weaknesses in my post, but you chose to highlight SCH. Of the 3 healers, AST definitely got the shortest stick, followed by SCH who lost the most of any job this expansion.

All 3 healers need changes sure. I’m just saying that when the raid tier is released, WHMs won’t be the one’s struggling in savage content. SCH won’t necessarily struggle either. But ASTs setup time and use of cards is very clunky as of now, along with also having noticeably weaker healing output. The balance patch in 2 weeks will be aimed at tuning each healer for raiding, and currently I believe AST is in need of the most help.

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You spoke about both SCH and AST, and I literally said I didn't meet many ASTs yet; so I cannot say anything about them. I guess they need to get buffed a bit, dunno. The last two I had in Titania Ex and Innocence Ex managed to heal the fight just fine without me doing much so I cannot confirm the too weak healing part from my limited data, and we will have data on how much card buffs do soon enough. But why did you even talk about SCH in the first place if you only wanted to talk about AST as you claim? You even said "they are also weak by comparison", clearly speaking about both. So please don't berate me for speaking about the one I can say anything about if you are the one making the impression of talking about both.