Question pertaining to the afterlife in FFXIV

OP I am also not a fan of the livestream. (But I am also not a fan of reincarnation) I just dont like that when we lose a character, especially one you truly liked, that this person is probably gone forever and maybe their aether is used for someone else. Its great for the reborn person but it would still mean that you will lose someone forever. So for me I just accept my own head canon that the scions dont fully understand it and that there is some kind of afterlife. For that my WoL fights on, to give to those living a better world while at the same time having the hope to see those beloved that died along the way again, when its their time to go.

I just dont like it if games explain it too much. Just let it be ambigious so that everyone can interpret it for themselves.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Midgardsormr also before he left us said he was sleeping in the lifestream. Course he is an alien so who knows exactly how a dragon's soul works since we know they only really die if they don't have at least one eye in their body. Heck i want to say their blood seems to also turn into some kind of mist? At least that's the only thing I can come up with since we see a lot of purple mist stuff around Timat. In SHB it's hinted that at least for our character's soul it's been not only splintered at least once it's also been reincarnated.

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Their blood(or any other loss of aether) seemingly turns to crystal. The site of Ratatoskr's death is almost completely crystalized, the places where Tiamat's bindings pierce her flesh are covered in crystal, and she's surrounded by a cloud of small crystalline particles.

also worshipers of the twelve (and probably other religions on hydaelyn) believe in an afterlife where the righteous have a place in the heavens and sinners sent to the hells, regardless of what is 'scientifically' correct about what happens to a person's aether upon their death

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Originally Posted by Dezarc

also worshipers of the twelve (and probably other religions on hydaelyn) believe in an afterlife where the righteous have a place in the heavens and sinners sent to the hells, regardless of what is 'scientifically' correct about what happens to a person's aether upon their death

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Not exactly, the Church of Halone and the Church of Nald'thal both believe in the righteous of their respective faiths being sent to the halls of their respective deity (with how the Halls of Halone and Thal refered to in universe coming across suspicously similar as to the Norse Valhalla), but it's unclear if the dogma of the other members of the Twelve had similar beliefs, although it's likely that they do.

A final note on that subject is it seems at the very least the average Eorzean believes (or did believe anyway) in a generic 'afterlife', or at least, that's how 1.0 refered to it (bear in mind that concepts we have in ARR did not exist/were never refered to in 1.0, such as Hydaelyn Herself, other than a vague nameless reference, or the Lifestream, which was simply called 'the river of aether') - my Path Companion frequently eluded to this generic 'afterlife' in her dialogue, an example is below (ignore the.... innuendo in it, the miqo'te Path Companion in 1.0 was always blatantly flirting with the player's character):

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Originally Posted by FFXIV version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Lord Errant'

Miqo'te Path Companion: "We would surely be enjoying each other's company in the afterlife, even now, if they did not have plans for us."

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With ARR though these references to the afterlife in Hydaelyn as... um.. the 'afterlife' seem to have disappeared so it's possible that may have been retconned out, but it's still an interesting element to this discussion anyway.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Not exactly, the Church of Halone and the Church of Nald'thal both believe in the righteous of their respective faiths being sent to the halls of their respective deity (with how the Halls of Halone and Thal refered to in universe coming across suspicously similar as to the Norse Valhalla), but it's unclear if the dogma of the other members of the Twelve had similar beliefs, although it's likely that they do.

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Originally Posted by Encyclopedia Eorzea, Page 19

While some sects of Twelve worship have different views of the afterlife, most believe that the righteous are promised a place in the heavens while sinners are doomed to an eternity of punishing trials in the hells. A belief made popular by a famous theologian and playwright of the Sixth Astral Era states that upon an evil man's death, he will fall to a hell that corresponds to the sins he committed in his lifetime. Once suffering an eternity in payment for these sins, he must journey through the remaining five "upper hells" and witness the sins of his brothers, before finally arriving at the gate of the seventh hell, where his heart will be weighed. If it is heavy with sorrow and repentance fur what he has done, he will be sent to the heavens. But if it remains light, he will be admitted to the seventh hell where he will suffer forevermore.

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it goes on to describe each of the six hells and heavens, but it's a little annoying to transcribe

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Originally Posted by Dezarc

it goes on to describe each of the six hells and heavens, but it's a little annoying to transcribe

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Can confirm lorebook has hells and heavens ascribed to two deities each, matched in turn to elements. Halone and Menphina rule the heaven and hell of ice, Nald'Thal and Azemya rule the heaven and hell of fire, etc. etc. It is remarkably detailed.

I also wanna mention, Sephirot's theme mentions seven hells and seven heavens. We know there are the Twelve deities but I think there's room to be extremely suspicious about a pair being missed. Like possibly in a Shadowbringers spoilers-way.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

Can confirm lorebook has hells and heavens ascribed to two deities each, matched in turn to elements. Halone and Menphina rule the heaven and hell of ice, Nald'Thal and Azemya rule the heaven and hell of fire, etc. etc. It is remarkably detailed.

I also wanna mention, Sephirot's theme mentions seven hells and seven heavens. We know there are the Twelve deities but I think there's room to be extremely suspicious about a pair being missed. Like possibly in a Shadowbringers spoilers-way.

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on the same page i quoted it says "They proceeded to create the firmament, the result being six astrally aligned heavens aspected to each of the six elements, and a final seventh heaven to rule them all. However, a residual product of these heavens were six similarly aspected hells, ruled by an all-encompassing, umbrally aligned seventh hell."

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Originally Posted by Dezarc

on the same page i quoted it says "They proceeded to create the firmament, the result being six astrally aligned heavens aspected to each of the six elements, and a final seventh heaven to rule them all. However, a residual product of these heavens were six similarly aspected hells, ruled by an all-encompassing, umbrally aligned seventh hell."

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Oop missed that! Thanks dude! ^^ Totally glossed over before!

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Originally Posted by Alleo

OP I am also not a fan of the livestream. (But I am also not a fan of reincarnation) I just dont like that when we lose a character, especially one you truly liked, that this person is probably gone forever and maybe their aether is used for someone else. Its great for the reborn person but it would still mean that you will lose someone forever. So for me I just accept my own head canon that the scions dont fully understand it and that there is some kind of afterlife. For that my WoL fights on, to give to those living a better world while at the same time having the hope to see those beloved that died along the way again, when its their time to go.

I just dont like it if games explain it too much. Just let it be ambigious so that everyone can interpret it for themselves.

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That's what I've always said. One thing I still love about World of Warcraft is they leave the afterlife extremely vague. You see spirits from time to time, but not much more than that. So the player can make up their own mind.

As for headcanons, that's a really good way to stay optimistic and keep playing the game. As long as the game doesn't super confirm anything (Like if Yoshi-P ever came out and said: "that's how it works and there's no if, and, or buts about it.") I think that's what I'll do. Thanks for the advice <3

And thanks to everyone else for the great discussion (Besides the two making it personal, of course) ;)

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Originally Posted by Larom

Man, I really wish that was stated outright by the game or the devs. The Lifestream, especially the way VII describes it, is one of the darkest things I\\'ve ever seen in fiction.

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The Lifestream is basically the same concept of reincarnation you’d find in traditional Buddhism (such as Theravada Buddhism). In Japan, Mahayana Buddhism is more popular in Japan where the concept of the afterlife and soul are much more palatable but sometimes you’ll see more traditional concepts in Japanese media.

In the first place, the idea of a soul is considered an illusion (in these schools). Even in life, you are just an amalgamation of desires propagating itself and you get stuck in a karmic cycle. In traditional Buddhism, Nirvana is actually a true death to escape the cycle of suffering.

But these games aren’t as depressing as that. Japanese Shinto beliefs have taken Buddhist concepts in more naturalistic way. We are essentially reflections of an Omni-Soul which is life itself. So when you die, you return to it.

The one thing that remains in most of these Buddhist concepts is that the sense of Self and Soul are an illusion and we are all one. That’s not so depressing (to me anyway).

I do think ShB may change the cosmology a bit. This seems even more relevant with some of the info from the MSQ. FF7 was a straight rip of Buddhist cosmology, but FFXIV has a lot more to it than that. As we learn more, I think it gets more nuanced and becomes its own thing.