I am a little worried about the enmity during pulls

For the ever living love of Hydalyn, will you guys please stop scaring OP? Flash is gone in ShB, stop using it as any example. please. its out of the formula, for now I mean... seriously! Do YOU(yes all of you) Think OP is right to worry about enmity gains, or do YOU think that it is ok, under NORMAL circumstances. that it will be alright? I believe it will, and that tank stance was altered to take this account into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Mistyregions

I low key was wondering how two tanks with stances on would stepping on each others toes. I mean you have to have it on to build your gauge.

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Gauges just are. The only thing ShB tank stances do is increase enmity generation. ShB abilities no longer depend on them for gauge generation or specialized effects.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You are right about the new AoEs probably generating far less enmity than current ones. However, since all weaponskills will be free, including AoEs; and all AoEs do 120 or more potency (even Unleash is being increased to 150 up from 50); and all AoEs have a follow up AoE that does more damage; there's far less disincentive for tanks to use AoEs. So whereas we currently see people doing an AoE enmity skill once or twice then moving on to single target attacks, we should expect people to simply spam AoEs until down to two targets, so group pulls should be fine even with a lower multiplier.

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Of course i do use aoes all the time in the large pulls.
The thing is, how are we going to do large pulls after 5.0, if they are removing our pulling tools that generates 1500+ enmity in AOE? We are going to be left with skills that are going to generate about 300-500 enmity so it will be few times less enmity for a single skill use than we have right now.
And if we run for example The Burn dungeon and want to pull 3 groups of enemies, but our team keeps dealing damage to the already pulled mobs or healer keeps using heals, it will be far easier to lose aggro on the mobs during the pull, during our run from group to group pulling trash mobs.
We will run into the first trash group, use total eclipse, then going to the second group to pull that one too, but unfortunately our dps are hotheads and will deal damage for more than 500 potency to the first group we already pulled, then what? We will lose aggro, dps pulled that first group back from us and everything becomes a real mess.
It will be painful to play high lvl dungeons after 5.0 patch.
We will need to tell dps to not attack mobs during our pull, but they rarely ever going to listen, so we are going be forced to make smalls pulls because we will be unable to keep aggro during the "running" stage when pulling.
If 5.0 tank stance is not going to give us ridiculous scaling like x10 or x15 it will be super annoying to play dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

The thing is, how are we going to do large pulls after 5.0, if they are removing our pulling tools that generates 1500+ enmity in AOE? We are going to be left with skills that are going to generate about 300-500 enmity so it will be few times less enmity for a single skill use than we have right now.

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You know they can change the enmity modifier that Tank stance gives right? And they likely have done so.

So, it's mostly likely that we haven't lost 1500+ enmity pulling tools and literally have our skills doing that enmity while having the Enmity stance activated.

SE wouldn't simply keep the Tank Stance modifier exactly the same and delete the enmity modifiers on skills and leave it at that. They've most likely implemented the skill modifiers into the stance and if they haven't, then they will shortly after the expac goes live and people struggle to keep aggro (But so far, no-one who's played with the 5.0 changes in media tour have noted any such difficulties with enmity)

I believe only your ranged skill has increased enmity, but honestly, I'm pretty sure holding enmity is going to be a no brainer due to tank stance increasing enmity of all of you skills and abilities.

Unless you're straight up sleeping on the job, there's really no need to worry about enmity, if even then.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

You know they can change the enmity modifier that Tank stance gives right? And they likely have done so.

So, it's mostly likely that we haven't lost 1500+ enmity pulling tools and literally have our skills doing that enmity while having the Enmity stance activated.

SE wouldn't simply keep the Tank Stance modifier exactly the same and delete the enmity modifiers on skills and leave it at that. They've most likely implemented the skill modifiers into the stance and if they haven't, then they will shortly after the expac goes live and people struggle to keep aggro (But so far, no-one who's played with the 5.0 changes in media tour have noted any such difficulties with enmity)

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I wish to believe, but seeing the state of DRK from the last 2 years, and hearing rumours about PLD being complete joke in HW, i am really doubtful they increased the enmity to such ridiculous amounts on tanks. :f
I will repeat myself, they would have to increase the multiplier from 1.7 to 10 or 15 if they want to keep all things like they are now.

After all its still a balancing team that was fine with dark passenger in stormblood, also keeping living dead in shadowbringers. I dont have as much trust in them as i would do with for example rito games. lol

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

they would have to increase the multiplier from 1.7 to 10 or 15 if they want to keep all things like they are now.

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This only applies to AoEs, which as I explained above should be seeing far more use than before. The absurdly high values on AoE enmity actions have lasted so long because the typical tank doesn't use them but once or twice per pull. With the increase to damage and the elimination of TP costs, there's no longer anything to stop a tank from just spamming AoE moves and putting out more DPS than AoE+AoE+(switch to single target for the rest of the pull). This combined with a tank stance with enmity multiplier tuned for single target combat should be fine on trash pulls.

Now the question of "What about undergeared tanks and healers who aren't melded vs. overgeared DPS who are melded?" arises because that is still a thing...

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Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure

Now the question of "What about undergeared tanks and healers who aren't melded vs. overgeared DPS who are melded?" arises because that is still a thing...

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That's not a problem with the tank stance multiplier; that's a problem with the players.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

This only applies to AoEs, which as I explained above should be seeing far more use than before. The absurdly high values on AoE enmity actions have lasted so long because the typical tank doesn't use them but once or twice per pull. With the increase to damage and the elimination of TP costs, there's no longer anything to stop a tank from just spamming AoE moves and putting out more DPS than AoE+AoE+(switch to single target for the rest of the pull). This combined with a tank stance with enmity multiplier tuned for single target combat should be fine on trash pulls.

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I know enmity wont be a problem in direct fight, its not today and it wont be. But when pulling mobs you dont use aoe multiple times on one trash group, you aoe them one time and run to the second group of trash mobs to pull them too and then you go to the third. And here where the problem is, since your aoe you use for pulling no longer generates as much enmity as it used to.
At this point your dps could pull mobs away from you while you are busy pulling next mobs.