AST: Card rework alternative

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

I mean, I've clearly explained why AST > WHM even without cards taken into consideration, so keep ignoring that I guess and keep preaching about your useless cards, I'm obviously not going to change your mind.

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Because they have an ever so slightly different DPS set of skills to use?

Because they have shields that conflict with Scholar ones?

Because they have Regen's that conflict with WHM ones?

Aside from having the now 'on call' Food buff, and nothing else to offer, There's not a whole lot the Asto has that either a WHM or Scholar couldn't replace.

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Originally Posted by Rahspdoy

Because they have an ever so slightly different DPS set of skills to use?

Because they have shields that conflict with Scholar ones?

Because they have Regen's that conflict with WHM ones?

Aside from having the now 'on call' Food buff, and nothing else to offer, There's not a whole lot the Asto has that either a WHM or Scholar couldn't replace.

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Tell me what WHM has that can seriously compete with Earthly Star. Tell me what WHM has in terms of AoE shielding compared to an AST in either sect. Tell me what damaging utility WHM has. Tell me what WHM will have to compete with two charges of Essential Dignity.

Go ahead, keep preaching that without cards, the 2 jobs are equal. Myself and other people who actually know how all 3 healers work will continue to laugh at you.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Tell me what WHM has that can seriously compete with Earthly Star. Tell me what WHM has in terms of AoE shielding compared to an AST in either sect. Tell me what damaging utility WHM has. Tell me what WHM will have to compete with two charges of Essential Dignity.

Go ahead, keep preaching that without cards, the 2 jobs are equal. Myself and other people who actually know how all 3 healers work will continue to laugh at you.

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Looks like infinite mana. And probably (ironically) more dps. That's it, that's all I got. I tried at least. Sorry for your loss :(

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Tell me what WHM has that can seriously compete with Earthly Star.

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An AOE heal that requires the person stand at that specific point while trying to dodge AOE's from mobs? That has the small bonus of doing aoe damage? To be honest, i hardly use it anywhere except for boss encounters or before the 'ultimate' attack of a Eikon fight. While it 'might' be useful some of the time, its not really useful 'all' of the time. The AOE heal can be done by any of the healers, and all of them have AOE damage skills as well. Only difference is ES is fixed in one point.

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Tell me what WHM has in terms of AoE shielding compared to an AST in either sect.

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WHM's dont have shields. But Scholars do. As for AOE regens? Medica 3.

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Tell me what damaging utility WHM has.

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1 Direct damage spell, 1 dot, 1 aoe. The same as Astro. Oh, and that new black lily spell you get thats a single-target DD spell i think? (or is it aoe?)

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Tell me what WHM will have to compete with [B]two charges of Essential Dignity

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Plenary Indulgence + Thin Air + Cure 2 / Cure 3 spam

Not to mention Afflatus Solace that can be used as many times as you have lilies to cast it.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Looks like infinite mana. And probably (ironically) more dps. That's it, that's all I got. I tried at least. Sorry for your loss :(

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Afflatus whatever-it-is requires 3 GCDs to charge, that's 3 Glares gone down, for a (tentative) 900 potency nuke which takes 1:30 to recharge. Add to that the loss of Aero 3 and I don't see any significant change to WHM DPS outside of dungeon trash pulls. Sorry for your loss.

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Originally Posted by Rahspdoy

An AOE heal that requires the person stand at that specific point while trying to dodge AOE's from mobs? That has the small bonus of doing aoe damage? To be honest, i hardly use it anywhere except for boss encounters or before the 'ultimate' attack of a Eikon fight. While it 'might' be useful some of the time, its not really useful 'all' of the time. The AOE heal can be done by any of the healers, and all of them have AOE damage skills as well. Only difference is ES is fixed in one point.



WHM's dont have shields. But Scholars do. As for AOE regens? Medica 3.



1 Direct damage spell, 1 dot, 1 aoe. The same as Astro. Oh, and that new black lily spell you get thats a single-target DD spell i think? (or is it aoe?)



Plenary Indulgence + Thin Air + Cure 2 spam

Not to mention Afflatus Solace that can be used as many times as you have lilies to cast it.

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Medica 3, you mean 2? Cure 2 spam? OK, now I know you're trolling. Yes, sit there hard casting all these GCD heals, while an AST can do it all off globally weaved in between Malefic casts.

Earthly is possibly the best heal in the game right now, if you can't use it properly that's on you. Learn the fights and when to place it, and it completely negates the need to do any other healing.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

Yes, sit there hard casting all these GCD heals, while an AST can do it all off globally weaved in between Malefic casts.

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And while your single-mindedly focused on the oh-so-meaningful DPS spam of a healer that is the 1 and only thing you like about the Astro change because the one and only buff you 'want' is the one and only buff they now have, You completely ignored that when asked what could compete with 2 charges of Essential Dignity, i replied with the truth that WHMs get 3... or is it 4? uses of a spell with almost 300 more potency with Afflatus Solas. (unless you plan to ONLY use Essential Dignity when your tank is down to 5hp which is likely what it'd take for it to reach the 700 potency of AS)

And whats not to like about being able to spam Cure 2 and/or Cure 3 freely, for 0 mana-cost 5 times while granting Confession to everyone if you use Cure 3 instead of Cure 2? If an Astro tried using their best heals 5 times in a row they'd be starved for mana.

Continue to try to defend the fact that the one and only reason you 'like' the Astro change is because you want the Direct Damage buff it has. Nothing else. The Damage buff. A buff you can get with a food item that last 60 full minutes and persists beyond deaths.

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Originally Posted by Rahspdoy

And while your single-mindedly focused on the oh-so-meaningful DPS spam of a healer that is the 1 and only thing you like about the Astro change because the one and only buff you 'want' is the one and only buff they now have, You completely ignored that when asked what could compete with 2 charges of Essential Dignity, i replied with the truth that WHMs get 3... or is it 4? uses of a spell with almost 300 more potency with Afflatus Solas. (unless you plan to ONLY use Essential Dignity when your tank is down to 5hp which is likely what it'd take for it to reach the 700 potency of AS)

And whats not to like about being able to spam Cure 2 and/or Cure 3 freely, for 0 mana-cost 5 times while granting Confession to everyone if you use Cure 3 instead of Cure 2? If an Astro tried using their best heals 5 times in a row they'd be starved for mana.

Continue to try to defend the fact that the one and only reason you 'like' the Astro change is because you want the Direct Damage buff it has. Nothing else. The Damage buff. A buff you can get with a food item that last 60 full minutes and persists beyond deaths.

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3 GCD heals to charge a 900 potency attack. Those same three GCDs could be spent on Glare for a total of 900 potency, you then spend an extra GCD to cast Misery. So 900 potency out of 4 GCDs, or 1200 out of 4 Glares.

Astros best heals aren't on the GCD, why is it so hard for you to understand? There are very few, if any cases to ever warrant spamming Helios/Medica 4 or 5 times in succession that can't be handled with a single Earthly Star/Collective, even the Savage soft enrages don't need that amount of raw GCD healing.

Regarding Solace, that's basically Tetragrammaton on the GCD, not better than Essential Dignity at all, lol.

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Originally Posted by CorbinDallas

3 GCD heals to charge a 900 potency attack. Those same three GCDs could be spent on Glare for a total of 900 potency, you then spend an extra GCD to cast Misery. So 900 potency out of 4 GCDs, or 1200 out of 4 Glares.

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Glare
Direct Damage Spell
Cast: 2.44
Recast: 2.44
Potency: 300

Afflatus Misery
Targeted AOE Damage
Cast: Instant
Recast: 2.44
Potency: 900 for first, 10% less for second, -10% for each till the 5th.


I thought your argument was about which had better/more useful heals, yet now your focused "again" purely on the DPS.

You dont want to cast GCD heals because it interfears with your use of Glare to add to your precious DPS. So your hobbling Yourself in the healing department because all you care about is DPS.

And you'd rather have that extra DPS from Misery as an off-global cooldown again, purely so you can bump up more DPS without having to choose between casting a heal or casting the DPS.

Again, the only reason you 'like' the changes to Astro is because it lest you do more DPS without having to choose between anything else OR dps.

every single card + the 3-minute buff = Balance, Damage. No choice.. ONLY choice is Damage.

Heals being seperated from that buff = More DPS. Their DPS skills being seperated from healing = More DPS.

DPS. DPS. DPS. DPS.

Thast the entire reason why Astro got gutted, because the meta-players ONLY cared about DPS.

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Originally Posted by Alfric

I haven’t seen anyone mention this so I’m sorry if they did! What about having three cards be debuffs and three be party buffs. Like maybe Balance is a slashing debuff to target, arrow is a slow to the target(like cast times?), and Arrow is.. increased rate at which the target takes critical hits? Not that those have to be the exact effects, but does this sound like a good idea?

I’m not veteran but it’s just a thought ^^’

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There's quite a few alternatives posted by people in the Forums to having Balance being the one and only card. And most of them still leave the AOE ability as the 'new balance' (including my own idea)

My personal one is here: Rather than turn everything into Balance

There's a few others scattered around in the Healer Roles forum.

*had to put my reply to you up here due to stupid forum posting limit :( *

I haven’t seen anyone mention this so I’m sorry if they did! What about having three cards be debuffs and three be party buffs. Like maybe Balance is a slashing debuff to target, arrow is a slow to the target(like cast times?), and Arrow is.. increased rate at which the target takes critical hits? Not that those have to be the exact effects, but does this sound like a good idea?

I’m not veteran but it’s just a thought ^^’