Thank you for increased difficulty

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Originally Posted by Maeka

@van_arn: Again, the problem with the Mist Dragon is not "handling the mechanics".

I know the mechanics just fine.

It's the short time-frames they give you, the insanely short time frames. One spot of lag and he decided to swoop right at me and I'm the healer? We're done. No second chances, no vulnerability, nothing. BOOM, you're dead. Start over from second one and pray you can do the whole thing, start-to-finish, with neither the tank nor the healer having any lag.

Just.......wtf? How is that fair?

I mean, heck, in Raids, you at least have two healers and a lot of times, you CAN recover if one healer lags for a second. Well maybe not Savage, but still.

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Nothing you're saying changes the fact that a few wipes due to people failing mechanics are perfectly fine at this point in the game, and if someone is causing a problem for the party then kick them.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Nothing you're saying changes the fact that a few wipes due to people failing mechanics are perfectly fine at this point in the game, and if someone is causing a problem for the party then kick them.

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I kinda see where Maeka is coming from slightly here. Again, she's not arguing that the whole MSQ portion is difficult, it's just that the time needed to dodge one certain mechanic is rather tight. In this situation, I am assuming the dive bomb like Line AoE Mist Dragon does.

Again, there is nothing wrong with failing a fight a few times and trying again, getting better each time, but I can't fault a said "underpreformer" for not dodging a mechanic when said mechanic doesn't really give off a indication or hint of where it's coming from, like all fights, raids and trials have taught you up to this point. (For example, some dragons will appear on the outside of the arena, or even if said dragon is invisible, it will AT LEAST appear for a split second before charging up its dive to chomp down on you. Mist Dragon's second dive does none of this.) The first dive will be easily seen, so yea, dodge or die.

The second one however is about 2 to 3 seconds before your a icecube, and can come from basically anywhere. Area is covered in Mist, so if your unlucky, that dragon will be down on you before you know it. There is a reason most people answer how to dodge that with "stay to the sides and pray" xD.

It's hard to not fail a mechanic when said mechanic has, until now, not given at least a indication or hint as to where it's going, until it's way too late especially healers being the unlucky ones, and there isn't a back up raise anywhere in sight. To me, that is far from the requirement of issuing a vote kick.

I have only done the fight twice so far, clearing it without a death on the second try (cause me and the other 3 randoms ran around in circles, screaming "Not it!", having abit of fun only to see said Mist Dragon miss us all by a few inches xD) so if there is a hint I am missing on the second dive, then my apologies, but please if you know, fill us all in xD

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Originally Posted by Maeka

Some difficulty is okay. I felt that Baelsar's Wall (even at release, before people got geared/sync'd) was a nice happy medium.

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We had that difficulty. people called it faceroll and said it wasn't enough to make people git gud. Now they made it harder, and the same people here in a few months will say the same things again, and ask for harder content. Zero point in arguing any more, let them endure the wipes.

I actually came in to make the same thread. This tier is fantastic. Raid is amazing, on point with Midas I think in terms of difficulty and interesting/fun mechanics. Suzaku is great, crafting not too bad, music good! It's been a long time since my group and I have genuinely enjoyed savage so this is a very welcomed patch. Almost at the end of Omega now so yet to see 12 but man, its been fun.

This patch is the same difficultly as all others. We just aren't over geared yet!
in 4 weeks times everyone will be burning content down quickly.
With most people having it all down in side 2.

I played so little in 4.3, I didn't even upgrade any of my tome gear to 370 I was rolling this content with i351 gear and having no issues.
My wife had some issues with burns but she mains Tank and was healing it. Because I've been Main tanking since 4.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

This patch is the same difficultly as all others. We just aren't over geared yet!
in 4 weeks times everyone will be burning content down quickly.
With most people having it all down in side 2.

I played so little in 4.3, I didn't even upgrade any of my tome gear to 370 I was rolling this content with i351 gear and having no issues.
My wife had some issues with burns but she mains Tank and was healing it. Because I've been Main tanking since 4.

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Thats kindof what I'm thinking, it's why I'm not tossing my hat yet. It just feels like it's gear checks. Now what will be great is if the new gear didn't give us a massive power boost so the fights stay this hard hitting. But only time will tell. I mean we could be wrong too, I dunno. I'm just remaining on the sidelines until more proof is revealed.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Eh, While more teeth is great, I wonder if it's more teeth or just gear checks. I don't wanna be that guy but I think we should wait and get gear before we toss our hats off to SE. If I remember correctly BW had teeth on first release too but that ended as soon as peopel got gear. D: I will say tho the last fight in omega feels like it def has teeth. THo I wonder if it's too late for it cause all I'm seeing is disbands :c

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Low item level gear doesn’t change the fact that Alphascape NM is the first 8-man raid this expansion that has actual DPS checks in 3 out of 4 of its floors: nails + dragons in V10, Level Checker in V11, and PoA Omega-M/Lunar Shower Omega-F in V12. No amount of gear will save you if you cannot properly perform the check, as the damage far exceeds any HP limit we have. That also doesn’t change that it’s the first 8-man raid (to my knowledge) that also has a floor with a soft enrage (V12N—if you do not kill the two Omegas at the same time, the one left will continuously cast Lunar Shower until its dead or you’re dead—I’ve wiped to the enrage at least twice so far). These are good things, and I want to see more of them in future 8-man normal mode content.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

We had that difficulty. people called it faceroll and said it wasn't enough to make people git gud. Now they made it harder, and the same people here in a few months will say the same things again, and ask for harder content. Zero point in arguing any more, let them endure the wipes.

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If you paid attention to posts from those who actually advocate for harder content, they note the first pull in Baelsar’s Wall to be one of the hardest 60 dungeons HW offered, especially if you pulled all the way to the end. Because those archers were serious business if you didn’t take care of them and the DoTs they spread willy-nilly to everyone in the party.

Compare that to Swallow’s Compass, which is an absolute joke of an “expert dungeon”—why is it that I can do it on a healer in i350 barely melded crafted gear and never have to actually press a healing button on my healers outside of Regen/A.Benefic/Adlo? And even the regen isn’t needed. That’s pathetic, and that’s what people argue against.

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Originally Posted by Maeka

... And that's the problem I have with that fight. It isn't about YOU and YOUR skill, it's about YOU getting put into a good group with ONE under-performer who causes everybody to wipe because the mechanics are that unforgiving. I don't like wipefests, I don't like blowing 30 minutes+ (especially with that insane distance from the 2nd shortcut) on the same fight because the fight allows almost zero room for error.

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Literally the only problem I can think of in this instance is if your tank is a DRK.

As a WAR/PLD, I can get out of deliverance / sword oath and easily heal myself through the rest of the encounter.
It is about your skill.

It's day 1 content. Give it until next patch and everyone will steamroll it.

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Originally Posted by ko_

Eh, While more teeth is great, I wonder if it's more teeth or just gear checks. I don't wanna be that guy but I think we should wait and get gear before we toss our hats off to SE. If I remember correctly BW had teeth on first release too but that ended as soon as peopel got gear. D: I will say tho the last fight in omega feels like it def has teeth. THo I wonder if it's too late for it cause all I'm seeing is disbands :c

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While gear is definitely a factor, I went into Sigmascape full BiS and steamrolled through it without issue. Same with Deltascape. I haven't run The Burn yet to judge it, but Saint Mochi's is pretty decent.