(Rant Post) Why Does It Feel Like Giving Advice Is Evil?

It could have to do with the way the advice is presented. Unfortunately, people don't like to be called out or embarrassed and see advice often as just that; being called our or embarrassed, or they may think you're an elitist. Whenever I try to help, I always try to word it as passively and nicely as possible while trying not to put the person on the spot. I know when you're playing the game it can be hard to think of a really nice way to put it so as not to come off harshly without meaning to, though.

But for example, "Hey, Dragoon. Maybe I missed it (entirely possible!) but I didn't notice you using X ability. If you didn't know, it's best to use it in X situation! But if you did use it and I just missed it, then sorry. ^^; Just trying to help. :)"
Or, "This is a really great idea! But maybe it might be a little easier if we determine a direction to run for people who struggle with the letter. Of course, we could still put the letters for those who find that way easier, too. That way, it should be easy for everyone." (assuming you can use both, or if the direction shifts depending on where you are then just drop that part.)

This way it doesn't feel accusatory and sounds friendly. If they get mad at even that, then it's just the person.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

This way it doesn't feel accusatory and sounds friendly. If they get mad at even that, then it's just the person.

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If I may, I think that's the issue the thread is highlighting. Too many people are too ready to jump down somebody's throat for offering advice of any kind in this game.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

It could have to do with the way the advice is presented.

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I find it is. barking orders before a issue has occured isn't going to work. demanding people use X skill isn't going to work - mainly because if they don't use it, they probably don't know what it is, don't know it's name and might not have it on their toolbar. debates on other people's rotations is pointless in the middle of a DF run. so is talk about their gear or stats. They have minimum stats to get into the dungeon already, your personal preferences are irrelevant.


I'm quite happy to assist people and do, and no-one has ever complained. first, I don't bother with their gear or rotations, that's for later if they decide they want more info. I only ever assist with mechanics if people are failing leading to wipes, and then I will say generally (not calling out someone in particular) "I'm sorry, I should have noticed people were new to this and said something earlier, so it's my fault. when X happens do Y", or something along those lines. No-one gets defensive about it, everyone is happy they can get it done with no drama, and most of the time there's a few comms in it at the end of the run :)

What really makes me sad is I gave someone a compliment the other day "nice heals!" after a dungeon boss. They had to ask if I was being sarcastic or not when I was genuinely just being nice :(

Many people don’t take too kindly if you just start spouting advice, and to be honest it’s rude and self centered. It’s human nature to be defensive. My advice to you (this is totally ironic) is that you ask the person if they’ll take your advice before you start your spout. Some will be open and others will say no. At the end of the day I think everyone wants to improve but so many times I see a mentor trying to be helpful and it comes across as bossy. Like with pizza, delivery is important

Also people are going to play the way they want to play regardless of who offers help. Especially if you are a total stranger. If it’s an fc member, I’m sure the response would be more positive but just trying to force your advice (regardless of intentions) onto some random will most likely never work. Also, I believe this topic was beaten to death in a previous thread.....(thinks)

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

If I may, I think that's the issue the thread is highlighting. Too many people are too ready to jump down somebody's throat for offering advice of any kind in this game.

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I concur, I've seen it too many times, sometimes even when offering the strat of a boss to new players in dungeons can be triggering

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

What really makes me sad is I gave someone a compliment the other day "nice heals!" after a dungeon boss. They had to ask if I was being sarcastic or not when I was genuinely just being nice :(

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Kind of sad that some people get or are so insecure that it’s come to that

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Originally Posted by Linx0r

Kind of sad that some people get or are so insecure that it’s come to that

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That's just the result of the over-sarcastic nature the current generation has with text speech. Anything can be taken as a compliment or insult based on how the person in question perceives it.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

A lesson everyone should have learned by the age of 12 is to not take over. When someone wants help, they want you to either walk them through it, STEP-BY-STEP, or they want you to do it first and then repeat your actions. Many kids just do "move over and let me do it for you" (thus implying the person is incapable of learning.) When adults do this to each other, it's taken as personal insult, and when the adult you do it to is far more experienced, they will also take it as encroachment on their authority.

Hence, allowing players that you have no experience with, to fail first, is better than trying to tell people to be a perfect PUG every time. Some people are embarrassed to fail and thus will take being spoiled over having to repeat things, as if it was bad to fail. If you're not having fun, then the game becomes less fun when strangers are telling you how to do your role, and have no tact when a mistake is being made.

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A lesson everyone should have learned a long time ago is you are not special. If you have a job to do and you are incompetent at doing said job, someone more competent will take over. It is the same regardless if it is in a game, a workplace in real life, whatever. There are certain tasks that are so easy to perform you have absolutely no excuse to not know it. By the time you are level 70, if i still have to explain the difference between tank stance and DPS stance to you when you are tanking, you are irrelevant, step to the side and let me do it myself, I am not here to babysit someone who is not able to understand basic mechanics.

I've had tanks get their feeling triggered and start responding with hostility because I said and I quote "Please pull more than just 2-3 mobs at once, you're not going to die, i'll makes sure of that.", no hostile tone, no insults, just a calm polite request, gets greeted with insults, toxicity and the tank left the dungeon, which was fine, i tanked it myself, ironically in larger groups than the tank was doing.

I've upset dozens of "mentor" players by simply outplaying them and explaining mechanics after watching them die 4-5 times to the same mechanic, only to be greeted with "stfu noob i'm a vet i've been here longer i know better." This is acceptable behaviour? Really now? It doesn't matter how long you've been here, it doesn't matter how experienced you are, none of that matters. If you do not understand basic mechanics or boss mechanics, someone that does WILL step up and explain them, and it seems the response from the majority of the people supposed to help new players is to get upset that someone newer than them knows more and is simply better at the game than they are. People like these should not be mentors or even be allowed within 50 miles of any sprouts.

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Originally Posted by MarniDawg

What really makes me sad is I gave someone a compliment the other day "nice heals!" after a dungeon boss. They had to ask if I was being sarcastic or not when I was genuinely just being nice :(

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That's because 9/10 times when people say that, it's sarcastic. I ignore all "nice heals" or "well done" or whatever compliment people have to throw at me in a dungeon/raid/whatever just because I'm not interested in finding out their complaints even though no one died. It might be a genuine compliment, but I don't care enough to find out.