Community Discussion - Battle Theory

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

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"Find me the exact quote, post, syllable he used to state this NOW NOW NOW!!!!1"

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

yoshi already said he sees the need for the mages to have more skills so no need to white knight it, they see it needs to be changed. /equip <flame proof shield>

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You seriously don't know what the term white knight means. Everyone agrees that the quality of abilities far outweighs the numbers. Yoshida saying mages need more skills doesn't mean he's saying they need 200 skills, it just means they need more quality skills and the first step of that was allowing the basics to scale with level.

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Originally Posted by Fated

"Find me the exact quote, post, syllable he used to state this NOW NOW NOW!!!!1"

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Status Ailment Spells and Instant Cast Spells
For casting classes, we will be allocating status ailment spells to each class.
They will be given debuff spells ranging from the core: sleep, paralyze, bind, charm, and heavy to spells that will lower enemy’s stats and resistance to magic.
(We are also planning to add a lot of spells to the currently existing classes at the time of 2.0.)

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there you go

flame proof shied blocks exexias attack i take 0 damage

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

there you go

flame proof shied blocks exexias attack i take 0 damage

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Funny thing is, those spells are currently in the data still and ignoring tier 2-3 versions, it still won't be that many depending on what is implemented with WHM and BLM in februrary.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Funny thing is, those spells are currently in the data still and ignoring tier 2-3 versions, it still won't be that many depending on what is implemented with WHM and BLM in februrary.

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depends on what you call a lot. percentage speaking adding 5 spells to each casting class would be considered a lot.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Not to jack my own thread but I've had this discussion many times with my friends.

Yoshi P has stated that classes needed more defined roles and the ability changes plus jobs are here to make that a reality....
1 class - 1 job - 1 role
And while I appreciate how people are indeed accustomed to this, it does constitute a very antiquated paradigm.
his biggest concern was that you didn't know what role another person had in the party
So we need Tank, melee damage dealer, ranged damage dealer, Nuker, enfeebler, DoT specialist, enhancer, healer

thats a lot of roles... I don't see why we can't have each class/job responsible for 2 roles... and there will be no confusion because you'd be expected to fill both roles as one person...

Damage dealing tanks, enfeebling healers (Imagine being able to syphon HP from the MOB and give it to the tank), enhancing magic and ranged damage (Which is what Bard may prove to be). A REAL battle mage that has very usable weaponskills AND DoT's (through spells or weaponskill effects)

The fact that some classes in FFXI were relegated to simplistic roles at times... while others were multifaceted... thats a shame

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That's actually how I view the classes: multiple roles.
As for jobs, there are the perfection of a single role.
So, classes have multiple roles without being perfect at them, while jobs are the ultimate perfection for that role (but you lack versatility to properly function in smaller groups).
I hope that at one point we'll see multiple jobs for each class, however that requires an huge amount of originality to prevent job overlap. That's where the community comes in, we throw our ideas in and the devs can model something unique.

Most of the time, people just complain "Make this better, change that" without ever going further and give the devs a hint at HOW you want it. Only then can the devs and fellow community members get into your head and understand WHY it's a good idea (and build upon it).

That's it for now. :)

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Originally Posted by Elexia

You seriously don't know what the term white knight means. Everyone agrees that the quality of abilities far outweighs the numbers. Yoshida saying mages need more skills doesn't mean he's saying they need 200 skills, it just means they need more quality skills and the first step of that was allowing the basics to scale with level.

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^pretty much this

However much i agree and like your idea, I have to bring up the problem that we'll encounter.

If you -require- certain jobs for an encounter, many people will become upset that you NEED to have at least 1 ____ in order to do the fight.


Now if you group it together so that ARC/MRD have 1 incap, LNC/GLD have 1 incap and PGL/THM have 1 incap (etc. etc) Then you're going to encounter the problem that only ONE of the classes in that "pair" will be the "preffered" class.

I think it's a very fine line to walk... No idea what to do as a happy medium.

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Originally Posted by Quatre

However much i agree and like your idea, I have to bring up the problem that we'll encounter.

If you -require- certain jobs for an encounter, many people will become upset that you NEED to have at least 1 ____ in order to do the fight.


Now if you group it together so that ARC/MRD have 1 incap, LNC/GLD have 1 incap and PGL/THM have 1 incap (etc. etc) Then you're going to encounter the problem that only ONE of the classes in that "pair" will be the "preffered" class.

I think it's a very fine line to walk... No idea what to do as a happy medium.

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Thats why you give the incap to multiple classes working together (i.e. fire>wind>Concussive Blow) and make the content doable without the incap but noticeably easier if you do it

Great topic, I like the idea of crafting bosses phase strengths reliant on having different jobs in the party. Theoretically this is how the fights should be made in the first place, to encourage a party's strength in its versatility.