4.3 Thought on 3 healers

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Originally Posted by Trunks

Right, well, thanks for that nugget. Not all opinions are equally valid or valuable. Reasoned ones provide the basis of most civil discussion; unreasoned ones provide the basis of most human conflict. What people proclaim to be "fun" and "boring" at least has some abstract influence on a medium which exists to bring us fun. Things which people say are "fun" can be incredibly destructive. Just ask Bambi.

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Originally Posted by Trunks

SCH and AST are boring. They each have one of their two functions almost entirely off the GCD. But WHM has to balance their cast times, and indeed their relative viability (i.e., personal DPS) is predicated on doing so. This means there's always room for improvement, basically, so long as people still have more than 1 HP when they take damage.

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So... your "reasoned" opinion influences my "fun" how?

"unreasoned ones provide the basis of most human conflict."
I'd say asserted ones provide the basis of most human conflict.
You might have offered a rationale, but you still asserted it as if it was "more than just an opinion", and even claimed it was "more valuable" of an opinion.

Given "boring" is a very subjective term, I don't really see there being an opinion that's more valid or more valuable. Maybe if we were talking about opinions on the state of our economy, I might trust the opinion of an economist over Dave down the pub who thinks he knows what's what.

On the point whether something is boring. I can't see one opinion being more valuable than the next. You either do find it boring, or you don't.

I find trainspotting to be boring.
I find fishing to be boring.
If find football to be incredibly boring

Yet those hobbies have massive followings.

I enjoy SCH, I enjoy WHM. I find AST boring. I know people who love AST.
SCH has been my main since 2.0 and no job has hooked me long enough to replace it.

And if people finding what you find "boring" to be "fun" and if it is great enough to have influence over what the devs consider fun and the content they make, then surely it's not that destructive, because it'd be the developers reacting to what the player base likes? The fact that you find 1 out of the 3 healers fun should mean it's not so destructive for you, given the number of people who also enjoy WHM. So it means you still get the healer you like and everybody else who likes SCH and AST also get the healers they like. I think each of the jobs could do with their improvements and I suspect there's a lot of player feedback regarding that. It is the beauty of choice, you don't like one, play the other.

As for Bambi, that's a tad dramatic, I don't believe animals get harmed in the development process. Whilst it is true that what people find fun could be destructive, it is a non-sequitur. Unless there is evidence to show that it IS being destructive, IE: Yoshi-P kills an elephant for every SCH or AST player then it is a non-argument.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

When your cohealer is rendered useless you know it was a job well done.

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Obviously fun for most SCH with whom I've been paired recently. Not so much for me. While I search for a game where healing has meaning, I'll be dps with a raise.

WHM has (and will likely always be) my go-to. I see no reason to play the others when I'm perfectly happy being a big heal & big damage powerhouse (at least as big as Healers can be). Yes, Holy looks and sounds obnoxious, yet I love nothing more than diving into swarms with the tank and going ham, without any detrimental impact on my ability to heal if things go wrong. Throwing stones may be simple but I find them very satisfying, especially the explosive crunch of Stormbloods Stone IV. As it stands, 355il is ensuring they crit for 10-12k, so seeing chunks of health-bar disappear in a click (as a Healer) is always satisfying.

Levelling WHM was also a very relaxing experience. I mained Shadow Priest for 8-10 years in WoW, so even the old Cleric Stance mechanic was a non-issue to me given the only difference was that casting a heal didn't automatically cancel the effect. In short, the more I played Conj/WHM, the more it clicked and the more I love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-WKMkzYgbE

I understand when people claim 'boring' or 'easy', but for me it is the blend of that ease/complexity. I may be DPS-centric but I'm also (when possible) highly proactive (when I feel like it) - such as above video where Zenos uses green-push attack for the first time, timing my Assize which, thanks to the inherent 'delay' in how the game works, heals everyone after the attack has happened. Sure, it's a weak-attack, but you know what I mean. Lately I'm working Cure III into my game a lot more (so it's no surprise to stack on marker-mechanics and have the damage not even register across anyone in the party because it has been instantly healed by a well-timed CIII), then there's OGCDs, the fact that WHM typically allows for bigger trash pulls due to the healing and AoE throughput - all manner of tiny little details that may be simple on paper but can otherwise ramp things up.

With that in mind, nothing annoys me more than seeing well geared tanks who decide to take the slow approach for no reason. Failing that, when I tank, seeing a passive healer who refuses to do damage. Despite them playing the 'watch the healthbar' game, I also notice said Healers almost exclusively play in a 'reactive' manner. If I had all that time to plot my heals, I'd be pre-casting - yet most just sit there waiting for damage to happen. I can see why someone like that would most definitely find WHM far more boring than I would (which isn't saying anyone who finds it boring plays or thinks in above manner).

We all have our reasons for liking/hating something - for me it is that WHM is a simple, powerful, well-rounded class with a bit of everything.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I think the new stormblood abilities helped make AST a little more distinct.

But if when SE makes the fourth healer, it's "here have some reskinned WHM spells with a gimmick on top", I'm going to be pretty :| at them. Scholar feels more like an expac job than AST did in HW.

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I agree with this. It's why I'm so scared of a new healer coming in, it really feels like they don't know where to go with healers. I'd like them to sit down and really just work on the 3 healers they have. AST still needs a redesign so it doesn't play like a pseudo-WHM.

Eeeh... I feel healers are okay right now. If they just expand on what we have I don't see an issue in them trying to add a new healer. Granted AST could use something more "distinctive" but it's not in a very bad place as it is.

My preference over them has shifted over time. Also... my healer is an 'alt character' made so I could play different races... so I'm still leveling her, but she's presently my 'active character' while my "main" sits idle in her Apartment...

In ARR I went for SCH. I really liked it, but not enough to make this character my main.
In Heavansward I went for AST... but again kept my main as my Mi'Qote tank.

In Stormblood I just assumed I would not care about the healers that much... so kept to the tank... now I'm dusting off the healer... and I just finished forcing myself through Palace of the Dead so I could do Stormblood with the WHM...

I had always assumed I would dislike WHM... so I didn't even really try it beyond the 'level 15 Conjurer to unlock SCH' status... But I've been having a blast with it of late... and sprinkled in enough dungeons to be sure it wasn't just the 'quirks of Palace of the Dead where you can get away with stupid'...

WHM: solid healer kit and good reasons to stay in melee range (Holy, Assize, and I think one other, but I forget). Low skill floor (basics are easy), not sure how hight the ceiling is.

SCH: Seems like a go-to if you want to mostly ranged DPS, and set the fairy up to handle all but major spike healing. Seems like a Medium skill floor, but a lot skill ceiling. Once you know it, you know it...

AST: Dynamic and a little unpredictable. Can be a lot of fun but also can be confusing and tricky to learn. Higher skill floor. Maybe a medium skill ceiling. As in harder to learn, but once you do there is some mastery, but not a massive bag of things past 'competency'.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I agree with this. It's why I'm so scared of a new healer coming in, it really feels like they don't know where to go with healers. I'd like them to sit down and really just work on the 3 healers they have. AST still needs a redesign so it doesn't play like a pseudo-WHM.

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Their best best would be a healer that works by using a melee weapon and attacking. Think of how the 'Fistweaver Monk' was in WoW: punching and kicking people healed your friends... (this healer got removed from the game - WoW monk had two kinds of healer, melee attacker and ranged channeler... and they cut it down to one in the next expansion; making Monk no longer feel unique. You can still punch things while healing, but it's just "something to do when nobody is taking damage" now...).

There are also models like the 'Fire Controller' of the old City of Villains MMO - you healed by lighting your allies and enemies on fire... and there was a 'dark energy' healer that healed by blowing up corpses, sucking the life energy out of enemies, and so on...
(Oddly, the Controller used a sort of 'holy fire' gimmick but was a villain, and the Dark energy healer was like a necromancer, but was a hero...)

Basically they need to 'break out of the stereotypes'... or there is just no need for another healer.

SCH: My 2.X main and original job. Currently probably my favorite healer to solo with. Haven't been a big fan of it since 3.X tho. Mostly use it now for content I find super easy or I'm helping a friend lvl up a job in lowbie content (Pretty much anything 3.3 and earlier). Lots of tools in the kit I like, not a huge fan of how the kit works with itself tho. I like it when I can run a dungeon with just Adloq heals and waiting for the shield to break to refresh.

WHM: Preferred job for old content I wanna rush through. Also my choice if I join a group where the other healer is also a diurnal preference AST. Being as I come from a healing background in older MMOs I've never experienced the MP starvation issues people used to complain about with WHM.

AST: Main preferred healer for new content I have to learn or legitimately try at. As a person who sucks at DPS in general AST feels the most forgiving of the 3 given that your use beyond healing and DPS is more profound than the other 2, and your personal DPS is lower. I'm rather fond of support/buffer classes in games, which in this game means BRD or AST and as mentioned I suck at DPS. Also I like modifying my card priorities based on my group comp and performance on the fly. After the spear changes ive nearly stopped phishing, if only I could get Royal Road to require activation before use I'd be set, basically get rid of the overwrite function of RR and have the click prime it for use on next held/drawn card used. Always fun when you can chain things like Duration Arrow into Buffed Balance on a BLM. Tho I absolutely hate getting stuck AST/AST, works better than SCH/SCH but more facepalm frustrating with card cancels.

Hoping for Dancer in 5.0 and that itll be another Support/Buff heavy healer to fight with ASTs niche. Even if its not DAN still would like a buff heavy healer.