Revelations from Patch 4.2

Post-MSQ cutscene:

Seeing Zenos be back makes me immediately think that this is some Ascian nonsense with Elidibus, but at the same time there is the fact that Zenos was a Resonant. And since Resonant are basically people given an artificial Echo, and we know that the Echo allows one to transcend the bounds of existence (or however the line goes), I'm wondering if Zenos can even die. The Sahagin priest who summoned Leviathan way back in...2.2, was it? When Merlwyb killed him, his soul simply possessed a nearby Sahagin and he returned to his normal form. It wasn't until Leviathan absorbed him that he died, similar to how Lahabrea was killed by Thordan. Just something that crossed my mind, though as I said, I'm certainly leaning more on this being a trick of Elidibus' than anything else.

RE: Comments on post-MSQ stinger

One of the things that makes me lean heavily towards "Ascian Shenanigans" is that, even if Zenos was able to resist the pull of the aetherial sea, [a] the Sahagin elder was forced to possess another body after his was mortally wounded and [b] why would Zenos want to continue living ten seconds after killing himself? The man cut his own throat to enshrine a perfect moment that further existence could only sully. Why would the real Zenos immediately change his mind?

Either his entire melodramatic send-off speech was a bit of theatre to prevent [a] anyone else from killing him and doing a better job of it and [b] being taken prisoner; thus "dying", lingering in aetherial form, resurrecting, and waltzing back home to do ... whatever unfinished business no one's bothered mentioning until now...

Or it's just not him in there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

RE: Comments on post-MSQ stinger

Either his entire melodramatic send-off speech was a bit of theatre to prevent [a] anyone else from killing him and doing a better job of it and [b] being taken prisoner; thus "dying", lingering in aetherial form, resurrecting, and waltzing back home to do ... whatever unfinished business no one's bothered mentioning until now...

Or it's just not him in there.

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RE: RE: Comments on post-MSQ stinger

There is another possibility as well. What if the Zenos we fought wasn't the real one? Varis' apathy towards the death of his own son would make a lot more sense if it was merely a clone, would it not?

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Originally Posted by Mholito

RE: RE: Comments on post-MSQ stinger

There is another possibility as well. What if the Zenos we fought wasn't the real one? Varis' apathy towards the death of his own son would make a lot more sense if it was merely a clone, would it not?

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MSQ Spoiler

That would require them to have the cloning technology the Allagan had. Do we have any evidence that the Garlaens have access to such a thing?

MSQ

CAN SOMEONE THAT ISN'T HAURCHEFANT STAY DEAD. PLEASE. Failing that bring back Haurchefant; everyone else on Hydealyn has to die at least twice for it to stick. I mean it isn't surprising that Zenos is alive/cloned/zombified/possessed but I'm not really sure how much I care at this point. I hope if they are going to bring him back they actually do more than just kill him again in a few patches but given the shelf life of garlean legatus that isn't likely.

Okay so I'm exaggerating but honestly is has gotten to the point that anytime there is a dramatic death scene/injury in the story it actually throws me out of the narrative, because I know that there is a least 50% chance that character will live. Characters rarely feel more than vaguely threatened (which decreases depending on how important they are). The game doesn't kill near enough characters to earn all of the dramatic survivals it does, so I wish they would stop setting them up so frequently in the first place. /endsoapbox.

Otherwise I liked the return to Doma, although I started laughing at my screen when Asahi was threatening the WoL. He was saying all the right words throughout the MSQ but I still wanted to punch him as soon as he started talking so kudos for the VA for that. Subtle this kid ain't, unless it is some sort of double bluff. I think whatever he is involved in is probably a trap for the Popularus as much as it is one for the Scions/Doma/Resistance.

The follow up to the Doman Rev's Toll arc was neat as well. Maybe next patch we can go back to the Steppe?

Omega: Sigmascape

So Midgardsomr has been some sort of Hydaelyn exclusive primal this whole time? That's . . . interesting. Huh. Aaaand once again we have to save Nero in the last chapter of a raid series. That man needs to realize that he is never going to figure out the secrets of the universe if he is dead. Then again maybe he will, see above re: everyone who isn't Haurchefant.

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Originally Posted by Draginhikari

MSQ Spoiler

That would require them to have the cloning technology the Allagan had. Do we have any evidence that the Garlaens have access to such a thing?

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There was an individual who had recreated Allagan cloning tech in the ALC 50-60 quests. I think he was from the near east but it obviously can be duplicated at current tech levels so it isn't impossible that the Garleans can do it.

Regarding Varis:

The thing is, Varis wasn't completely dismissive towards the death of his son. His statement begins with '...' which suggests a measure of hesitation and sadness. He even looks somewhat conflicted in terms of his expressions during the cutscene in question, though he also states that Zenos is a monster and unfit for the throne. Given that Zenos turned himself into an Eikon and Varis apparently saw that happening, it doesn't make much sense for him to keep someone like that around...especially when Garlemald's goal is to put an end to the Eikon threat. As for Elidibus, he clearly showed Varis something that shocked him - so it's not like the guy is without emotions.

Now, if Elidibus plans to bring about Zodiark's rebirth, him backing Zenos rather than Varis makes sense. Varis did not send reinforcements to aid his son and does not share Zenos' enthusiasm for mindless bloodshed. Zenos, however, is completely unhinged - and it could very well be the case that Varis and others in Garlemald could not overpower Zenos through conventional means and thus sent him to the outer territories hoping that he would be killed in combat. Varis is, after all, described as an excellent tactician...

Varis not being present in the ending is suspicious, too.

As for Asahi, if he admires Zenos then it doesn't seem like he is genuine about his support of the faction seeking reform. We already know that Zenos didn't care much for anything related to Garlemald and tormented his own allies. Those he kept around and supported were manipulated purely to cause strife and division. Fordola and Yotsuyu were successful at that though Asahi seems to be the most devoted of all. Perhaps Varis is genuinely interested in reforming Garlemald? Garleans are described in the lore book as being efficiency driven, after all. Though we've yet to see much of that due to the 'crazies' being at the forefront for the most part.

Potential MSQ inconsistency?

Just so I can get the time line clear in my head, we go down into Asahi's memory during the last part of 4.2, and he asks who has saved them. His comrade says it was Zenos, the crown prince.

Wouldn't he only have been crown prince once Varis had ascended the throne? And didn't that happen towards the middle / back end of 2.x? I thought the conflict they were referencing was the one that causes Yugiri and the Doman refugees to flee, and they reached Eorzea at the start of 2.1... so, don't we have some time line issues here, or have I missed something? So, if it's not a consistency issue, then the conflict carried on after Yugiri left?

Edit: I mean, I know the time between the patches isn't massive in the game time line, did the Doman uprising last for a couple of months?

Four gods storyline

I didn't have a problem with the whole "an animal which lives 100 years, develops...blah, blah, blah" because I'm pretty sure that's part of chinese/japanese mythology, especially when talking about the kitsune: "When a fox is fifty years old, it can transform itself into a woman; when a hundred years old, it becomes a beautiful female, or a spirit medium, or an adult male who has sexual intercourse with women. Such beings are able to know things at more than a thousand miles' distance; they can poison men by sorcery, or possess and bewilder them, so that they lose their memory and knowledge; and when a fox is thousand years old, it ascends to heaven and becomes a celestial fox." I liked that little nod there.

MSQ

Was it weird I knew Asahi was not to be trusted since he first showed up? Like,
he came across as trying TOO hard to put up a nice front, though his Echo vision left me with some Gabranth undertones, that is, turning his back on his kin to serve their conquerors, and believing peace would be found by submitting to the Empire. Wondering what that would make Yotsuyu...

The Four Lords:

So, Tenzen had the Echo and was regarded with fear and suspicion as a result. Interesting development, since it means that it isn't only Garleans and Eorzeans who are prone to being wary of such a mysterious power. Unlike some Echo users, however, he apparently reached his full potential. It'd be neat to learn more about other similar heroes in the future from various regions.

Yotsuyu:

That her dress was responsible for saving her life is very interesting. It dampened the blow of Hien's sword, which isn't too much of a stretch given that the material used by Garleans is described as much more durable than anything Eorzea has to offer. I can't help but feel sympathy for her due to her troubled past. I don't quite understand why some people don't and simply want her to die, though. It's not like previous Final Fantasy titles haven't introduced spiteful and unpleasant antagonists only to gradually redeem them over time. The only thing that bothers me about it all is that characters more deserving of a true redemption arc - such as Gaius, Regula and the Warrior of Darkness - were all killed off. Hopefully they're bold enough to redeem Emperor Varis without killing him off,
since we could do with some more redeemed male antagonists. Perhaps someone like Seifer or Rufus.

@Theodric: About Yotsuyu:

Its quite simple for me. The past may shape us but we are still the ones that choose our path. There are probably a lot of people on Hydaelyn or even the real world that had a bad past or maybe even a much more worse one than her. I can understand that this might sent them on the bad path but its still our actions that will show who we truly are. It was on her to decide what to do with her life and she choose to torment a whole land. Children, elders, beast tribes and more. She did not care that none of them were at fault for her situation. I would be way more sympathetic if she only got her revenge on those people that did it to her. Her family, her husbands, the brothel. But she did not and on top of that she enjoyed it till the bitter end.

I just dont feel like I should feel fine about her getting off that while others may be punished for way less. Revenge will not bring the death ones back but even in our world we punish those that do bad and if they are not stable then they will be locked away forever.

Honest question: Would you feel sorry for any kind of mass murderer that once were alive in our world if they had a sad past? Would you let someone that killed masses of people free just because they hit their head and forget about it or just because they had a sob story behind them? No we might understand them better and maybe try to stop something like that from happening again. But we should not just stop punishing those because they still had a choice.

Fordola at least regrets her descision and does have constant visions of the people that she hurt. She is also still in prison and even after saving the lives of the people they still dont forgive her (which is a human reaction to all the suffering). It makes way more sense to give her the path of redemption because she does get punished, she regrets it and it will probably (and hopefully) not be that easy for her. Yotsuyu losing her memories is only a hard descision for the others around her. She herself is not aware (right now) what she did so there should be barely any burden on her shoulders. There is no possible regret if she does not even remember them and the people of Doma might never get true closure on this.

I am also not saying that she should be killed by the people, just that she should have either stayed death or should be truly punished and not run around like she did nothing in the past. (I just dislike the memory loss story lines)

I dont really care if FF likes to do that a lot. I would not feel much sympathy in the real live for such people too. I might understand their motives better but that does not mean that I feel that much for them. Would you feel for someone that just shot down a whole school of young kids if they tell you that the killer was once bullied by children of his age? I certainly would not. I would try and better myself as a human being and hope that other do too so that something like that wont happen again but I will not feel sad about the killer itsef. Because they still had a choice.