More Egi's Or Demi-Primals?

The problem is that unlike raise summoning a primal has been cementified as a practice in the lore of the game, you don't steal the likeness of someone when a primal is born, the primal assumes the vision of the summoner/s, their ideals, their fantasies, true this doesn't exclude that in the future there cannot be a primal tiamat but at the moment there's no primal midgarsorm nor tiamath and frankly dragons in general are quite bitter about what happened with bahamut


speaking on lore I hope the second lore book will actually explain demi primals better since the game had no explanations and it was something I was looking forward in the quest
I mean the first one had some lore descriptions on skills

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Originally Posted by Remedi

speaking on lore I hope the second lore book will actually explain demi primals better since the game had no explanations and it was something I was looking forward in the quest
I mean the first one had some lore descriptions on skills

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I hope for this too. I was hoping the final SMN quest would have required us to face off against Demi-Bahamut and bind him to our will, very much like the FFXI Cloisters. Instead the ability was kinda just given to us "off-screen" almost...

Hmm I don't want to spoil anything but if you didn't play through the Binding Coil of Bahamut story, then you might not know why Phoenix would in fact be a really (really really) bad choice.


Again sideshow if anything, Tiamat's rage by being unwillingly turned into a primal would make her all the more strong. This is my point exactly, they could do literally anything with any character, we have no idea what they might do. However, my above logic regarding Phoenix still stands; it's "already been used and wrapped up." The other mentions have not.

I suppose you mean sorrow, Bahamut was already born from Tiamat's rage, that said a primal tiamat could be born from other sources, maybe some tribes in meracydia actually worshipped the dusk wyrm as a god and that gave form to primal tiamat, there are plenty of possibilities actually especially since primals can be born accidentally (hi susanoo)

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Originally Posted by Llugen

Hmm I don't want to spoil anything but if you didn't play through the Binding Coil of Bahamut story, then you might not know why Phoenix would in fact be a really (really really) bad choice.


Again sideshow if anything, Tiamat's rage by being unwillingly turned into a primal would make her all the more strong. This is my point exactly, they could do literally anything with any character, we have no idea what they might do. However, my above logic regarding Phoenix still stands; it's "already been used and wrapped up." The other mentions have not.

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No worries I completed all of the Coils of Bahamut, and have encountered Phoenix. However although I understand your initial reasoning, to now uphold them would be a contradiction that there's no telling where an unfolding MMO's story will go. Phoenix can return at any point if the devs wish it so, and not to spoil anything but I assume you don't know much of what happens in Ultimate Coil of Bahamut?

I mean yes but it was like a BIG caveat of the 2.X story... that's why the title is called "The Final Witness" in the first place.


You're not wrong, but like I said it's VERY "wrapped up" as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile Tiamat was barely touched on (and is still alive and miserable, for that matter). See what I mean?

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Originally Posted by Llugen

I mean yes but it was like a BIG caveat of the 2.X story... that's why the title is called "The Final Witness".


You're not wrong, but like I said it's VERY "wrapped up" as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile Tiamat was barely touched on (and is still alive and miserable, for that matter). See what I mean?

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It's true in the original Coil story it does very much seem wrapped up. However all I can say to that is turn your gaze to Ultimate Coil and things might not seem so carved in stone.

I'm not sure there's really any more need to discuss this; Unending coil is "the minstrel's hyperbole" just like the rest of the minstrel's ballads. It's a "epic reimagining" of events that "actually happened" but do not themselves happen. This is true for ALL of his "songs".


Again like we both said they could do anything they want but I think we can agree that Phoenix is MUCH more wrapped up than just about any other potential candidate.

Ultimate coil never happened tbh

However It's worth mentioning that they said that different cultures might have different versions of certain beliefs and as such primals with the same name might work and manifest in different forms (the 2 anantas tribes for example) when they made this point they also talked about phoenix or ifrit for example.
Considering we are getting Suzaku soon we might have something about it since usually the vermillion bird is depitched as a phoenix

That's a fair point, I've mostly been coming at this from a game play/content angle. Story wise I agree it's more wrapped up than other Primals. I guess in terms of pure lore you can argue that Phoenix and Demi-Phoenix are not one and the same, just like the Egi and the Primals are not one and the same. To be able to summon an Egi of a specific Primal all a Summoner has to do is attune to that Primal's aether. You could argue this attunement was already achieved during the Coil events, or like when the Summoner tries to call forth Ramuh Egi, we go to where it's remnant aether is most potent.

So for me it seems there's already things in place to give Phoenix to SMN without bringing him back into the main story anyways.