Just Realized - Are jobs bringing 2 hours back?

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Originally Posted by Demacia

15 minutes is two uses per primal fight. Let's assume here that PLD "2 hour" generates mass enmity and DD's deals insane damage. Bam you just abused low CDs on your absolute strongest move to get a ridiculous early advantage AND have it ready halfway through the fight. 4 uses per dungeon? HOW CAN YOU LOSE? Let's just take the DDs with the strongest 2 hours and spam those.

Don't think about the way FFXIV is currently set up. Think about the future.

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Encounter difficulty is a function of both player strength and enemy strength. You can't assume that simply because players have access to ability X, all PVE encounters must be easy. What if Ifrit had an ability that he uses twice per fight that is guaranteed to one-shot the tank unless he has Invincible on? What if he also regularly wiped his hate list? Suddenly the FFXI Invincible on a 15 min cooldown doesn't sound that backbreaking, now does it?

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Here's the catch, we're assuming things at this point. Yes, if the skills are incredibly powerful, their cooldown and / or costs should be increased accordingly, I agree with that.

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I think you're looking at this from an irrelevant perspective. It doesn't really matter how strong they are in relation to their cooldowns. Long cooldowns on useful abilities are always detrimental to game balance simply because they create very infrequent spikes of player power. The encounter designers have to then decide if they want to balance the encounter around people having the cooldowns ready or not. It should be obvious why this is bad. Additionally, PVP content is coming and people aren't going to like fights always being decided by who has more super abilities ready.

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Originally Posted by SnickleWhiskers

2 hours would be such a terrible idea. I agree that they should be roughly 15 minutes at most. Love if it convert was more like 5 minutes or so.

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i think convert shuold be 1 min or 90 sec beings that con already has a nice ability get get mp back.

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Originally Posted by Rutelor

I don't agree with the once-per-instance-run timer. That is like playing poker with 6 jokers per pack. To that request I would answer: "Learn how to play; die many times and progress." For the rest of the reasoning go to this thread.

R

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Except this is more like people (incluiding you) thinking Solitaire will abide to the same rules as poker just because the cards used are mostly the same.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i think convert shuold be 1 min or 90 sec beings that con already has a nice ability get get mp back.

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I agree. Considering current MP costs, Max MP values, regen rate as well as tools available to THM to regain MP - I honestly expect Convert to have a CD no longer than 120s. That being said, it depends greatly on the potency of the MP regen effect the BRDs will be dishing out. If the refresh effect is very potent, then I could understand a higher Convert CD as it would become more of a clutch-ability. If the refresh effect is not amazing, then a lower Convert CD is to be expected.

I would be fine in both scenarios, however I sincerely hope they keep that balance in mind. Considering the obvious party-focus of the design on Jobs, I expect it to be the former case with a considerably high CD on Convert. Probably something like 5-10 minutes.

It was a 2hr to indicate that it was a last chance effort, 2hr to try not to die(or in nin's case, 2hr and die). It wasn't meant to be used on a regular basis, as they were generally very over-powered. Look at smn and astral flow. that ability was widely abused and was the difference between a fight being easy and a fight being difficult. tough bcnm/ksnm? hell bring 2 smn, it will be easy. I'm ok with 2hr.

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Originally Posted by Frein

I think you're looking at this from an irrelevant perspective. It doesn't really matter how strong they are in relation to their cooldowns. Long cooldowns on useful abilities are always detrimental to game balance simply because they create very infrequent spikes of player power. The encounter designers have to then decide if they want to balance the encounter around people having the cooldowns ready or not. It should be obvious why this is bad. Additionally, PVP content is coming and people aren't going to like fights always being decided by who has more super abilities ready.

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I completely agree with you. However, if they ever implement very powerful abilties, there has to be some kind of limit on how and when said ability can be used. Long cooldowns are one way, Limit Break-like is other, requiring a quest to unlock a single use before being able to do it again is other, etc, etc.

Just mentioned that because most people complaining about these skills are, in fact, assuming we're gonna have abilities equivalent to the XI 2-hour abilities in both power, effectiveness, strategic importance and overal I-win-buttonness but on a much lower cooldown, which would indeed be very unbalanced unless they completely tune encounters around them.

The point is, we do not know if that's gonna the case. It sure could be and I will be against that if it is, but QQing about the timer without the proper knowledge of how they work is simply "wrong"

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Originally Posted by nasomi

It was a 2hr to indicate that it was a last chance effort, 2hr to try not to die(or in nin's case, 2hr and die). It wasn't meant to be used on a regular basis, as they were generally very over-powered. Look at smn and astral flow. that ability was widely abused and was the difference between a fight being easy and a fight being difficult. tough bcnm/ksnm? hell bring 2 smn, it will be easy. I'm ok with 2hr.

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I'm completely against something like that. Any skill that trivializes otherwise challenging and engaging content is a big no in my book. I'd rather have relatively weaker skills coupled with relatively lower cooldowns. A skill with a 2hr cooldown is just ridiculous.

Most people never used their 2hrs except in BC or other big fights - I'd rather have abilities that are slightly toned down from the power of the old 2hrs, but have a ~30min cooldown and are more practical for normal play.

Although, if the Primal summoning happens the way Yoshi has hinted at, it will be the ultimate "2hr" (more like 2 week) ability for this game.