Well Done SE

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Nezerius, there are many nuances to Shatter that actually go beyond simply hitting the ice for points.

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Except melee dps is generally better reserved for hitting the ice, instead of going for other players, due to the fact that their damage isn't halved like casters. Even then, people only going for the ice aren't doing anything wrong, like the quoted person seemed to imply.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Many threads have been made about it, and after I post this, I'll track down an intermediary guide I wrote here not too long ago. Simply speaking though, ice IS important, but there are many ways to win Shatter despite the ice. Reliance on one method, especially if your opponents switch theirs, runs a heavy risk of failure.

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Sure there are, but the majority of the wins are still going to be through points gained from ice, as that's the main objective in Shatter.

Really the #1 rule to any pvp is: don't die, kill them till they're dead. once that's done killing the ice is easy.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

the majority of the wins are still going to be through points gained from ice

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Not true. For the majority of the matches, the team with most kills (points from enemies) wins. I've taken several screenshots of scoreboards, and, iirc, the team with most kills wins more than 2/3 times. Of course, this may be a coincidence, still, I'm fairly confident only focusing ice is a really bad tactic.

Countless times I've seen one -or a few- melee dps/tank suicide-rush ice, probably thinking they at least secure a few points before they die. Not smart. On small ice, a single dps must deal more than 1/7 of total ice HP to make that beneficial, as opposing team gets +5 points from their death while the other team loses 5 points. That is, 10 points favoring opposing team(s) pr head. Besides, the dps have to waste time respawning while not helping the team. In that regard you may have to deal more than 1/5 of total ice HP to make the suicide-rush worth it.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Not true. For the majority of the matches, the team with most kills (points from enemies) wins. I've taken several screenshots of scoreboards, and, iirc, the team with most kills wins more than 2/3 times. Of course, this may be a coincidence, still, I'm fairly confident only focusing ice is a really bad tactic.

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Then you and I have had different experiences in wins, then.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Countless times I've seen one -or a few- melee dps/tank suicide-rush ice, probably thinking they at least secure a few points before they die. Not smart. On small ice, a single dps must deal more than 1/7 of total ice HP to make that beneficial, as opposing team gets +5 points from their death while the other team loses 5 points. That is, 10 points favoring opposing team(s) pr head. Besides, the dps have to waste time respawning while not helping the team. In that regard you may have to deal more than 1/5 of total ice HP to make the suicide-rush worth it.

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This has nothing to do with focusing ice being a bad tactic, and more with players being dumb and not moving as a group.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Then you and I have had different experiences in wins, then.

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Maybe. How often do you inspect result on scoreboard?

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

This has nothing to do with focusing ice being a bad tactic, and more with players being dumb and not moving as a group.

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Yes, but the "focus ice" mentality makes people think stupid things like this justifies it.

I'm not saying, "ignore ice", that is idiotic (unless you know you can steamroll other teams, aka veteran premades). Having a tactic that favors ice over all else is far from being meta in Shatter. Ignoring PvP is far more detrimental than ignoring ice, IF people are serious that is.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

It would definitely work, at the announcement of ff14, all former and still playing ff11 players were crying out of joy to have something like ff11 but with better graph. Better have a niche game with happy community than a mass game with most-of-the-time sad/rage/w/e community.

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They tried to make "FF11 2.0" as the 1.0 version of this game.

It failed horribly.

Wildstar tried to cater to a "hardcore" demographic of MMO players that don't exist anymore. Now people only play that game for housing. MMOs are different now.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Exp didn't add any more reason for me to do frontlines or feast, as I mostly did casual PvP to collect glamours and mounts from achievements.
Would I still be doing that if they remove exp? Yes.

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You did it to collect glamours and mounts from achievements.
Tell me, do you care about old & new pvp system in the first place?
You said you did casual PvP indirectly means that you're not daily hardcore players.

Besides that, do you know that Killing Players means that you getting "Battle High" "Battle Fever" which allow you to snowball easier which also means you do more damage to Ice Tomelith?
Also when you manage to push back enemy and reset the ice aggro counter, It also resets the contribution points from the Ice which allow you to get full credits from the Ice.

Please tell me you know all of this when you're saying Ice > All

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

Also when you manage to push back enemy and reset the ice aggro counter, It also resets the contribution points from the Ice which allow you to get full credits from the Ice.

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I've played a fair share of shatter and I didn't know about this.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

You did it to collect glamours and mounts from achievements.

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Yes? So? You were talking about exp.

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

Tell me, do you care about old & new pvp system in the first place?

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Both have their up and downsides, although I did go from mainly playing DRG in the old system, to mainly playing RDM in the new system. As a DRG with EU ping, I always just focused ice (have you tried actually attacking moving targets with 150-200 ping?) while as RDM, that focus shifted more towards PvP (due to the 50% magic damage reduction on ice).

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

You said you did casual PvP indirectly means that you're not daily hardcore players.

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And this is related to the discussion how? You should stop moving goalposts.

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

Besides that, do you know that Killing Players getting the killing blow against players means that you getting "Battle High" "Battle Fever" which allow you to snowball easier which also means you do more damage to Ice Tomelith?

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Fixed that for you. Easy to miss out on Battle High/Fever when people other people are getting the last hit.

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

Also when you manage to push back enemy and reset the ice aggro counter, It also resets the contribution points from the Ice which allow you to get full credits from the Ice.

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Requires everyone to be on the same page, as a dead enemy only causes the reset once they respawn.

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Originally Posted by Mofafafa

Please tell me you know all of this when you're saying Ice > All

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For melee, it still is, like I said in a previous post.

Ok, First of all, you need to calm down.

You did it to collect glamours and mounts from achievements. <--- This was refer to, you by doing PvP is to get something in return. But "US" playing PvP is to enjoy the game mode. and EXP implement clearly ruined for all of us.

For the new and old pvp system. I already mentioned in my previous post what's the good points at but some of it we already have in the old system it just require more effort to do.

You say (have you tried actually attacking moving targets with 150-200 ping?) I do actually, its very hard but once you are used to it, its fairly easy. I can name you one of my JP friends that recently moved to Lich server from JP DC and he still uploads video of him still getting "Battle Fever"

And this is related to the discussion how? You should stop moving goalposts.
- I'm pretty sure this is related in both casual and hardcore players... The new system is catering all the casuals/newbie as it was very easy to understand and button smashing game play. I play PvP daily before SB hits in both Feast and Frontline, and i do enjoy every single bits of it, I even join my JP's PF and join their discord listening to their shot call while understanding almost zero knowledge on JP language but i do understand what's they trying to do and accomplish in their strat because its the most effective way to win the game.

Fixed that for you. Easy to miss out on Battle High/Fever when people other people are getting the last hit.
- OK, this will clearly shows the different between a decent player and good players, it is 'VERY EASY" to secure a kills for yourself if you know how to last hit. especially MELEE. I ask you to search up 'Nex Cross' the NA PvP God in youtube.

If you still trying to bring in ping as an arguments, I suggest that you shouldn't tell everyone that ICE > everything when clearly some of us doesn't play as a similar ping.


Besides that, the moment i see you wrote "as a dead enemy only causes the reset once they respawn."
I firmly believe you clearly have insufficient understanding in the game mode both in PvP and PvE. You can just reset the aggro counter by just moving out from the aggro reach.



Not to mention, every time i join my JP's party finders. we always end up with 10~20+ kills of every 5 DPS with Battle High/Fever. But that usually doesn't happen before GARO started because other alliance also have their own "fixed group" and almost everyone is veteren that knows what they should focus on.