#Delete SMN now for sure?

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Originally Posted by Robert_Ilcri

Eh give it time and stuff will be fixed. At the very least the Aethertrail crap got fixed so a botched Fester/Bane will not screw up your rotation anymore. Bring back sustain and fix Bane in the next patch, Summoner will do just fine.

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Would really be nice to see how devotion works to be changed as well.

And not my preferred way to handle the attunement issues, but they way I'd like to see it done (aetherflow skill use conditional and triggered by being able to inflict an effect) is probably more complicated to perform than it's worth. But hey, at least this way when I Tri-disaster an s-rank and the target can't actually take any more debuffs Fester will no longer completely whiff - at least I get attunement for it if not damage. (I really wish they increased the max debuff limit - both displayed and applied.)

I am summoner lv 68 now was getting excited to finish it, then now this and the pvp nerfs. So where is that Red Mage job start?

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Originally Posted by Celef

If you (somehow :p ) like playing SMN just play SMN and if "superroxxor666" does not want to play with you because "Ur job suck !" then.....trust me, you just don't want to play with that guy xD
His lost, not yours ^^

As I always say (trying to translate it in english so might look weird ^^") "It's not the class that does the job, it's the player"

People need to remember it's a game, your supposed to have fun in it. Forcing someone to not play his fav job just because of theorycrafting (I think this is how it's called but if not don't hesitate to correct me) is bad IMHO

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I like Summoner, but I'd rather stop playing it in the hope that a mass Summoner exodus might make the devs at least acknowledge that there are problems.

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

I am summoner lv 68 now was getting excited to finish it, then now this and the pvp nerfs. So where is that Red Mage job start?

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Ul'dah in the main markets area.

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Originally Posted by Celef

If you (somehow :p ) like playing SMN just play SMN and if "superroxxor666" does not want to play with you because "Ur job suck !" then.....trust me, you just don't want to play with that guy xD
His lost, not yours ^^

As I always say (trying to translate it in english so might look weird ^^") "It's not the class that does the job, it's the player"

People need to remember it's a game, your supposed to have fun in it. Forcing someone to not play his fav job just because of theorycrafting (I think this is how it's called but if not don't hesitate to correct me) is bad IMHO

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The big thing for me is that for the most part, current SMN ISN'T fun. Dreadwyrm Trance/Deathflare is fun; Demi-Bahamut/Akh Morn is fun. Spending the other time keeping up two boring DoTs and spamming the most graphically unimpressive filler spell in existence (Ruin) is the antithesis of fun and yet the developers insist on locking our "fun" bits behind long, easy-to-screw-up/lose cooldowns. Wasn't this very thing the reason for BLM's Enochian change? No one LIKES their cool-looking powerhouse moves to be locked behind cooldown gates or punish mechanics. I don't WANT to keep using goddamn Ruin when I have had the spell since LEVEL ONE AS AN ARCANIST. I want to summon, I want to harness that primal essence and have a big model blocking other players' views and doing big flashy nukes! (Sorry not sorry, size slider hopefully coming soon.)

I mean, despite my ranting, I'm mostly okay with DoTs, and most okay with not having a big huge massive nuking summon out all the time (if you want to redesign SMN LIKE this though SE I certainly won't complain :D). But when we keep having all our cool stuff locked behind Aetherflow abilities it just gets really stale, and makes the job feel like it stops evolving past level 35 (when SMN gets Fester).

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Originally Posted by Robert_Ilcri

Eh give it time and stuff will be fixed. At the very least the Aethertrail crap got fixed so a botched Fester/Bane will not screw up your rotation anymore. Bring back sustain and fix Bane in the next patch, Summoner will do just fine.

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In my book, messing up your stacks flow should be punished. Think when you play and how to use. Removal of that mechanic fixed literally NOTHING.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

In my book, messing up your stacks flow should be punished. Think when you play and how to use. Removal of that mechanic fixed literally NOTHING.

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Punish for your own errors? Sure. But then you can also be punished for problems at other sources as well. Seriously - you can get no benefit to applying Tri-disaster due to the limited number of debuffs a target can hold. And since it's also possible to apply a debuff and not have it displayed since max debuffs shown is less than the max debuffs that can be applied, you won't even know which upper limit you hit until you see "No effect" from Fester. But by all means, punish the player for server / design shortfalls.

Or am I replying to the wrong subject? Is this about whiffing Fester / Bane or using Aetherflow when Attunement is full? Aetherflow when Attunement is full is in the player's hands. Though the game could still do more to support the player. Most of the changes for SB were under the guise of raising the skill floor, but the SMN changes still seem to be more about lowering the ceiling while leaving pitfalls in the floor.

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

I am summoner lv 68 now was getting excited to finish it, then now this and the pvp nerfs. So where is that Red Mage job start?

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Thanks can't wait to try it

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Originally Posted by aesteval

Punish for your own errors? Sure. But then you can also be punished for problems at other sources as well. Seriously - you can get no benefit to applying Tri-disaster due to the limited number of debuffs a target can hold. And since it's also possible to apply a debuff and not have it displayed since max debuffs shown is less than the max debuffs that can be applied, you won't even know which upper limit you hit until you see "No effect" from Fester. But by all means, punish the player for server / design shortfalls.

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It still equals making it foolproof.

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Originally Posted by Synrin

It still equals making it foolproof.

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Which was, essentially, the stated goal of job changes for Stormblood.