Is anyone else dying to get to Garlemald?

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Originally Posted by Klonoa7

Exactly, Garleans are irredeemably evil with Cid being the only exception. Some may claim to have noble causes, but, in the end it always comes down to conquest and genocide.

(Also how did you type all that? The limit is 1000 letters.)

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1. I remember Nero briefly mentioning to Cid how many of his countrymen did not resent him for betraying the Empire to work with the Eorzeans. On the contrary, this only painted him in a dashing light as a rebel engineer and, if anything, he only became more popular among normal Garleans. So I wouldn't say that even common Garleans who are in the Empire are all that bad.

2. Type what you want, cut most of it, and then paste everything when you edit the post to get around the 1000 word limit.

I don't want to see them conquered and killed. I've kinda liked the idea of being able to work with them, and the notion of destroying that given the fact that a lot of repelling them was based upon circumstance and consciences, kinda puts to bed the notion of being a merciful Warrior of Light.

You Might as well kill Cid and Lucia if you feel that strongly towards their demise. You Might as well destroy the beast tribes that are antagonistic towards you.

You Might as well, because "What was it all for?" such bloodshed can only be justified with more of it, and it is an endless chase of justifying the many death brought by your hand. Yes the DRK quests explore this notion, and come away with the fact that you are still a good person. But could everyone forgive the Warrior of Light intervening in their lives, knowing they can do nothing to resist them?

This is my opinion and take on things, I've seen the WoL as a person that is called to understand, assist and lift up people. They play cards with imperial soldiers, they understand and assist beastmen, they even give Eorzea's poor and rejected a chance. That there would be an entire people they choose not to hear and actively destroy, feels like a betrayal of that mission. The Garleans are enemies of Eorzea, not Hydaelyn. I'd rather we didn't conflate the two.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

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SE choice to make Garleans Muhahahah Evil in 4.0 this time around was more because the development of Garlean Characters were starting to shown too much of their Good side too soon in the storyline when the WoL has yet to enter Garlemald and actually learn directly what goes on in Garlean Society.

If anything I think they are trying to make players just purely hate Garleans until they enter Garlemald to reveal that the citizens are being lied to about what goes on outside of Garlemald by having the Garlean Media only showing Citiznes false information and deleting all information about horrible abuses and crimes the Garlean Military commits while intentionally removing people who would try to expose these crimes or make their society look like the bad guys.

Also about the Third Reich's fall, a part of History never covered most often is the aftermath of what happened in Germany where the Citizens of Germany had to pay the price for what the Third Reich did but as learned from the after math a lot of Bad information was cut from civilian from their crimes to use of people as test subjects thus the majority of the civilian population were ignorant of the crimes commited by the Third Reich to make the Third Reich look like good people

Though not all members of the Nazis were bad people but they were mostly stick in their position because if they have left or betrayed the Third Reich their families that are left behind would suffer the consequence and be called traitors.

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Originally Posted by Klonoa7

I'm dying to nuke Garlemald. Kill every last Garlean man woman and child except for Cid. They're gonna consider us savages no matter what we do (And it's painfully obvious at this point Garland is FF14's take on Nazi Germany) so might as well show them what real savagery is and end them all except for Cid who's the only one among them who's not a malicious tyrant.

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"i hate the garleans for genociding people"

"lets genocide them back, I have the moral high ground"

No, you really don't.

So excited for Garlemald, not only do they have the coolest looking armor, but also magitek gear. First thing I'm doing when I get to Garlemald is to unlock the new Gunblade job, then fix my hotbars. Long live Zenos!

I believe the Garleans have a fairly justifiable historical chip on their shoulder, judging by what is said in the Encyclopedia Eorzea. They were/are the only 'race' unable to manipulate aether and therefore could not use magic; because of this they were bullied and persecuted by the other races and driven out to the harsh infertile lands in the north of Islabard. They eked out a difficult existence here until they discovered the technological advantages that using ceruleum granted them. It's hardly surprising that when this allowed them to develop a military strength that could defeat the 'magic users' who'd previously persecuted them, they decided to use it. I don't think the historical context allows anyone to take the high moral ground. Which is not to say Garlemarld is justified in its aggression either, but the depiction of all the races on Hydaelyn are far more shades of grey than they are black and white

I'd also mention that Doma and Gyr abania certainly look bad but those are two provinces, both of which have little to offer, especially Gyr abania. Natrually they gave access to new warrior castes to bolster their army but other than that they likely saw little profit to be made and as a result were treated worse. Obviously this isn't a good thing but the point is that there would be provinces that are treated fairly, I'd also imagine it's largely to do with the actual legion governing it which most legions would have their own ingrained culture depending on the upper command, in the 12ths case it was more or less violence and magitek experimentation. So we haven't seen that much of garlemald yet and should they prove to be dastardly evil at every turn than it's rather unbelievable that it could function as a superpower at all.

We've already worked with Garleans for Warring Triad.

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Originally Posted by Kallera;4287228
You [I

Might as well[/I] kill Cid and Lucia if you feel that strongly towards their demise. You Might as well destroy the beast tribes that are antagonistic towards you.

You Might as well, because "What was it all for?" such bloodshed can only be justified with more of it, and it is an endless chase of justifying the many death brought by your hand. Yes the DRK quests explore this notion, and come away with the fact that you are still a good person. But could everyone forgive the Warrior of Light intervening in their lives, knowing they can do nothing to resist them?

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That is crap logic. The beast tribes (except the Amal'ja) summon their primal out of fear (which is mostly due to Garleans and misunderstandings with the locals). After summoning their primal they are permanently possessed by it even after's it's defeat thus letting the possessed live leaves them as a threat to everyone as not even the Warrior of Light can reverse it. (The Brotherhood of Flame has tried as well and failed miserably). That said each beast tribe has a group that want nothing to do with the madness of the brothers.

Garleans on the other hand don't act out of fear (except for the ones stranded in Eorzea after Gaius's defeat), they act out of their desire for conquest as they wish to rule the rest of the world through force and indiscriminately kill anyone who stands in their way. Just ask anyone in their conquered provinces, they're stripped of everything they hold dear, forced to pay fees to the empire, has their citizens forcefully drafted into the empire military (even kids), and the empire does not even bother to protect them from threats to their existence as they're left to die from wild beast attacks. Every last Garlean except for Cid (and apparently Lucia whom I forgot was Garlean) is hell bent on conquest. The few "good" garleans we've seen in SB are not true Garleans, but individuals forced into the Garlean military such as Baut who made the garlean rule more bearable for the people of Ala Ghiri.

Garleans are a threat to the entire world as it's our duty to end them once and for all. There is no cooperating with them as they desire conquest and destruction, not peace, and therefore must be destroyed for the good of Eorzea.

Let me preface this by saying no country deserves to be glassed. Real or fictional. There are always people trying to do the right thing in the face of whatever ills plague a nation, and there are always innocents that will be caught in the crossfire. Wanton slaughter solves nothing, and you lose any moral high ground you may have if it comes to that. (Even if circumstances are exceedingly extreme and you have no other option... you still did bad. Necessary bad, but bad all the same.)

The "Lore Book says..." clause regarding the Garleans' mistreatment before magitek isn't necessary any more. Garlean Hojo Aulus mal Asina provides this exposition in-game while he and Zenos begin to explain to Fordola the SOLDIER program Resonant procedure. (I'm pretty sure they explained more than the cutscene showed. Maybe. Possibly.) Regardless, as with Nidhogg and Yotsuyu, it doesn't even come close to justifying the things they've done (and continue to do). It explains it, sure, but when you're attacking a generation of people who've done you no wrong you lose any moral high ground or sympathy. This paints their actions as vengeance, and the only way out of that cycle is to let bygones be bygones.

The Garleans aren't enemies of Hydaelyn... yet. If Varis continues to work with Elidibus that could very easily change. I hope to high Heaven it doesn't, but one should prepare for the worst.

I'm not keen on speculating how we'll ally with Garlemald. I agree it's more likely to happen than open war with them, despite current tensions - but without someone like van Hydrus or van Baelsar, a Garlean patriot with a sense of decency and honor, I can't see how.

Side note: despite past transgressions, Nero is starting to shift to the side of good, even if he's still insufferably smug and selfish about it. At least I think he is, but that could just be confirmation bias since I make no effort to hide the fact I want him to become a heroic instance of a Garlean.