Dear Gilgamesh Party via Sirensong Sea... (aka "I don't know my Job/Role!")

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Okay, I don't understand.

I specifically said that I trusted the healer at the time, they were keeping me up...

And as I said, I may have worded my intent wrong when trying to explain why I was in "the bad". They could have thought I was attacking then when I was just trying to explain.

I dunno, it's just when I play healer, I like to heal and attack, but I like to heal just a little bit more. So if a Tank that rotates debuffs and sits in bad so that the DPS can properly attack, I mean... we have a large mana pool for a reason as healers.

And it's not like I stand in the bad all time, only when I know I can take it, as some other tanks have stated.

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I think I get it, that said, dps positionals are secondary to staying alive, and since healers get enough pressure to be psychics as it is...

Better to err on the side of caution in df, imo.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Okay, I don't understand.

I specifically said that I trusted the healer at the time, they were keeping me up...

And as I said, I may have worded my intent wrong when trying to explain why I was in "the bad". They could have thought I was attacking then when I was just trying to explain.

I dunno, it's just when I play healer, I like to heal and attack, but I like to heal just a little bit more. So if a Tank that rotates debuffs and sits in bad so that the DPS can properly attack, I mean... we have a large mana pool for a reason as healers.

And it's not like I stand in the bad all time, only when I know I can take it, as some other tanks have stated.

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Even if they were keeping you up: you were taking damage you shouldnt have been taken. Sorry, no way around that and no defending that. The healer had to heal you more than it should have been needed - in a level 61 dungeon you might be very well expected to move out of AoEs.

Dps-positionals arent an excuse either - every mob that casts an AoE doesnt move while casting it, so you have normally enough time to move out and back to your place again, without moving the mob. An alternative is often a stun aswell. Dodging doesnt mean moving the mob - it means you're moving your ass temporeraly out of the AoE and then return to your place.

Your healer can use their large mana pool better to only cast the needed heals and dps rather than casting extra heals because someone cant be bothered to move.

Also: If the healer in your run was already asking you to dodge, they might have had a reason for that and prefered you not to take the extra-damage. But instead of respecting that you're throwing a big fuss...

Being a tank does not absolve you from dodging aoes and not standing in bad. sometimes it will be unavoidable but whenever it is avoidable a good player will avoid damage. the less unnecessary damage you take as a tank the less burden on the healer.

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Okay, I don't understand.

I specifically said that I trusted the healer at the time, they were keeping me up...

And as I said, I may have worded my intent wrong when trying to explain why I was in "the bad". They could have thought I was attacking then when I was just trying to explain.

I dunno, it's just when I play healer, I like to heal and attack, but I like to heal just a little bit more. So if a Tank that rotates debuffs and sits in bad so that the DPS can properly attack, I mean... we have a large mana pool for a reason as healers.

And it's not like I stand in the bad all time, only when I know I can take it, as some other tanks have stated.

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I would still have healed you (since it's my job to keep you from dying), although begrudgingly so, since you're wasting my MP and GCDs.

If they kicked you when tanks are in short supply right now, you were doing something wrong.

If the healer doesn't DPS at all, sure stand in the bad since they're content on twiddling their thumbs. Actually, Holy does take quite a bit of MP, although Thin Air helps with that. So I don't agree that the MP pool is a reason to stand in the bad. DPS can properly attack? Monk is the most positional heavy job and yet I don't really care if the tank moves the trash, because Rockbreaker does a lot more damage than my positionals on one mob. Optimally, I'd either be doing Perfect Balance Rockbreaker spam or I'd be doing AoTD->Twin Snakes->Rockbreaker.

As a Tank I understand the roles of each class very well so I do everything I possibly can to make things easier as it makes the run better. I avoid each and every AoE and if I can't I ensure the party won't get hit by anything. I use my CD's in segments using preventative mitigation if possible, but ALWAYS having at least one defensive CD to used. Being a Pally I always heal my healers with Clemency if they get hit so they don't have to worry about that one GCD (Clem also heals me too) so they can focus on any dps getting hit or whatever else they need to do. If you know you are going to get hit by the bad, or that the party will get hit make sure to use Divine Veil (if a Pally) to help the healer out. Use your debuffs to give the dps any extra dmg potential and make sure they can always access mobs. I believe a tank should always move out of bad, mitigate all dmg as much as possible over dps when needed, and keep mobs in position and maintain aggro. I highly disagree with the OP.

A bit off topic but I'm gonna ask anyway.
Question about last boss of this dungeon,
Is there anyway to know which direction I'm being forced to move after Morbid-something ?

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

To the party who so serendipitously kicked me due to:

1) Me standing in the bad.
2) Some members standing in the bad cause I was standing in the bad.
3) Telling me to not stand in the bad.

Let me explain WHY >I< stand in the bad:

1) I am a Tank. I can take harder hits and status ailments that other party members can't. I do so when I think the Healer can keep up with me and the group.

2) Due to large pulls and the way enemies swarm, I cannot help it if "the bad" sometimes hits you as well, since I'm just trying to do my job and keep the enemies in place so that DPS jobs who have positionals can continue to dole out the damage.

3) I don't like to flaunt my mentor status, but I usually keep it up to try and drive the stigma that comes with it away. I try to help out when I can and I like to think that my ~5700 hours of playtime amounts to some decent level of knowledge, despite the fact that I don't raid.

... I still get nervous at the thought...

So can it not be understood that when someone tells me they can give me tips, yet the reason for a wipe was that the DPS was being split and I was already having a tough enough time already, what with the DPS output being high and ripping hate off me sometimes...

When ANYONE who is doing their job right... yet the DPS split apart and make it hard to AoE and keep hate up... and then deride my ability to do my job...

... Anyone would get upset at that.

I understand that in my anger to try and explain why I would stand in the bad, it looked like I was attacking the DPS, but as I stated above, I was just trying to stabalize the trash mobs so those DPS classes who have positionals can continue to do so.

So yes, I was doing my job.

I apologize for this rant thread, but I had to get this off my chest.

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1) Did you know that most of the status ailments that cannot be cleansed come from telegraphed attacks? They're like the amped version of paralysis, pacification and silence except its all rolled into one and they tend to last just long enough for lose the aggro that you were accumulating

2) Ranged and Magic classes don't need positional. Good melee dps adapt. As an example, a monk who wants to make use of a Rear oriented skill isn't going to wait for that "perfect" positional. He'll move around and do it. And if he can't? he'll just a Flank oriented skill. And if he can't? He'll just hit the mob and move on. You're underestimating the dps' ability to adapt in terms of positioning.

3)All this makes my heart bleed for anyone who has to put up with your inflexibility. It wouldn't be a problem if it didn't come at the expense of your party members which brings me to this...

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Originally Posted by otarolgam

Okay, I don't understand.

I specifically said that I trusted the healer at the time, they were keeping me up...

And as I said, I may have worded my intent wrong when trying to explain why I was in "the bad". They could have thought I was attacking then when I was just trying to explain.

I dunno, it's just when I play healer, I like to heal and attack, but I like to heal just a little bit more. So if a Tank that rotates debuffs and sits in bad so that the DPS can properly attack, I mean... we have a large mana pool for a reason as healers.

And it's not like I stand in the bad all time, only when I know I can take it, as some other tanks have stated.

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Again, just because you're fine with how you heal--or better yet--just because you don't mind putting up with tanks that stand in bad means everyone is okay with it. You can't use a "one size fit all" style of tanking for all situations just because it suits you best. A good tank assesses, adapts and reacts to their environment and pulls.

As long as you remain as you are, you're going to either keep aggravating your party members or they'll be so fed up with you, you'll get vote kicked.

In the future, refrain from making rant threads when your counter-productive playstyle doesn't mesh with others.

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

A bit off topic but I'm gonna ask anyway.
Question about last boss of this dungeon,
Is there anyway to know which direction I'm being forced to move after Morbid-something ?

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Advance means you move forward.
Retreat means you move backwards.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Advance means you move forward.
Retreat means you move backwards.

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So..the boss uses skill "Morbid Advance" and "Morbid Retreat" ?
Damn I never read the full name of this skill D: ...
That "something" I mentioned is already the answer for my own question...
I should have paid more attention.

As a healer main to a tank, please don't purposefully stand in aoes, its making my job harder when I could otherwise be doing other things to benefit the party (aoe spam). As someone who also plays all the DPS I would rather a tank moved out the aoes than got hit by them, despite the belief that DPS don't care about what the tank does, we do because it means the difference between a wipe and a smooth run. Also in larger groups DPS will be aoeing and thus caring minimally about positionals, just don't spin things like crazy....

Just a PSA, did the lvl 65 dungeon and holy moly if you are doing larger pulls and get hit by the aoes you are gonna die, fast.