Summoner Over-Nered (and A few other Problems)

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Are you aware that Stormblood removed a decent pet heal? It was called sustain and it no longer exists.

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And thats why i was writing: "why dont you ask them for a decent pet heal" I am aware of that, that the pet heal over time was removed.. just ask them to put it back again, and to remove the useless ACN/SCH physic heal spell instead.
This would fit SMN fmuch better than being able to heal group members. That he has even heal in this game is because of the shitty relic of SCH / SMN sharing the base class.

You are saying that RDM is able to heal party members too.. WELL RDM in its classic FF job role always was able to heal since the red mage uses blm and whm spells.. and performing a light support role. and now you come along to ask for a party member heal to become actually better instead of asking for getting back the abillity to heal the pet which would be more appropiate to the SMN job. Do you know what i mean by that?

A damage dealer role having heal should stay the only exception for Red mage...
this may be the "unique" thing why you would take a RDM with you, because he doesnt deal high damage but always fullfilled a light support role back in FF history. He always could perform a little bit of all professions but none of them perfect. Thats why he has heal..

And a SMN has orignially nothing to do with heal. And im not talking about FFVII > FFX / FFXIII / FFXV which had no classic FF job system at all.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Simple. Our pet no longer dies. Meaning we don't have to waste a swiftcast and 25% of our mp to re-summon our pet that is 25% of our damage.

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Well, that can't work because in solo play, you can't have the tank pet be invulnerable...

And with no way to heal it...
We're left with our current problem.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Well, that can't work because in solo play, you can't have the tank pet be invulnerable...

And with no way to heal it...
We're left with our current problem.

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You misunderstood. I want physic to be changed so it can heal a good chunk of health to my pet/party members. That way if I'm in a dungeon/raid/trial I don't have to beg the healers to keep my pet (who they can't even see the health bar of) alive. Just make physic work like red mage's vercure, and we can take one of summoner's many problems away. 25% of my dps shouldn't be in danger of dying. You know any other class that can have 25% of their dps killed?

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

Well, that can't work because in solo play, you can't have the tank pet be invulnerable...

And with no way to heal it...
We're left with our current problem.

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You misunderstand what Ariomi is saying. They're saying they just want a useful heal for their pet. Check the message she quoted and was replying to.

We dont want invulnerable pets just the ability to try to keep them alive.

EDIT: Aaaah Ariomi beat me to it! :)

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Originally Posted by Texa

Rydia, Garnet, Eiko, and Yuna all could heal. Yuna specifically could heal her aeons in a multitude of ways in and outside of battle. This isn't even covering the games that let you make your own skill setups or summons that healed.

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And since when FFIX and FFX are used to have a classic FF Job system? Its more about characters than job classes.
In FFVII - FFIX everyone was able to summon, to cast spells like thunder etc.

The Job system of Final Fantasy online titles rely on the CLASSIC job system of the old FF titles / FF tactics titles still have!! Just because it fits the online genre pretty well.
http://pre07.deviantart.net/26b2/th/...dy-d32umkk.jpg
http://michibiku.com/wp-content/uplo...ark-knight.jpg

FFX' characters may have charactaristics of jobs (lulu may be somewhat of black mage, though waka was a "blitzballer" which is no classic FF job at all well..) .. and in FFVII- FFIX there was nothing like job classes, everyone could cast "BLM" spells and had the abillity to summon... but there is no FF job system behind that. Same for FFIX, FFVII, FFIX, FFXIII, FFXV etc.

The FF job system lies in the classic FF and tactics titles

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

You are saying that RDM is able to heal party members too.. WELL RDM in its classic FF job role always was able to heal since the red mage uses blm and whm spells.. and performing a light support role. and now you come along to ask for a party member heal to become actually better instead of asking for getting back the abillity to heal the pet which would be more appropiate to the SMN job. Do you know what i mean by that?

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Your point is invalid due to the fact Dark Knight is a tank in ffxiv and not a scythe wielding dps. What happens in old games doesn't necessarily apply to this one. Also I don't recall an FF game where a summon could be killed. And I can't name a single other class in this game that can have 25% of their dps killed.
It makes no sense to ask for Sustain back when you can already repurpose a spell summoner already has, and make it useful for any situation.

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Originally Posted by Ariomi

Physic needs to work like Red Mage's Vercure. Let us heal our pet/other party members Make Physic scale off Int or Mind which ever is the highest

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Nope, this class is a dps not a healer, it may of needed arcanist at first to become a summoner at most I'd think it would at least get some sort of bonus to healing the pet with that skill but nothing else other than that. It would be bad to have more classes running around like the red mage does and negating the use of the other healers.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And since she/he is talking about the smn being nerfed in damage how would the abillity to have a decent single heal improve anything?

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Not one for paying attention in class, are you? It's really simple. No ability to heal pet means pet dies faster. Giving Summoner's a usable Physick spell means they can at least do that much. It's not meant to be a replacement for traditional cures (not nearly enough potency for that, even if our best stat was used), just help out where needed.

As already pointed out to you, virtually every summoner (like, ever) had heals in the FF canon. In FFXI (the only other MMO), white mage was pretty much a standard support job until Scholar came along and gave them even more curing potential. You've already lost this argument from the start in either case. Why is it fine for Red Mage (a DPS) to have a heal but not Summoner?

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Oh really, and if you are talking about FFX, FFVIII, FFIX etc. these all had no fixed FF job roles.

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I was not aware I mentioned FFVIII, or that Tidus could summon, or that FFIX didn't follow the job system to a point. I mean, here I thought Yuna was the only one who could summon, same with Eiko and Garnet.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Not one for paying attention in class, are you? It's really simple. No ability to heal pet means pet dies faster. Giving Summoner's a usable Physick spell means they can at least do that much. It's not meant to be a replacement for traditional cures (not nearly enough potency for that, even if our best stat was used), just help out where needed.

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To be fair, if Physick scaled off INT for SMN, it would be the same as for SCH. I'd rather just have sustain back, myself. Or give the pets a faster natural hp regen effect so you don't *have* to heal them, at least as much.

Eh, maybe they could just slot-in a new trait for SMNs somewhere that affects Physic in a way where the potency of the heal increases only for their own egi. Could even base it off of a percentage the egi's max HP.

Seems like an easy enough fix to me. SMN's still can't reliably heal themselves or party members, they can reliably sustain their pet without a new action and Physic is no longer useless to SMNs.

Sorry if that idea was previously mentioned- don't follow the discussion on this topic much.