Anyone else feeling a hit to SCH?

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Originally Posted by MsTanya

Yes the fairy is always flying around but in reality its just saving us having to cast a regen once every 20 seconds.

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I'd argue you aren't giving the fairy enough credit. It's what allows SCH to spend 90-100% of the time dpsing in all content, barring the occasional adlo. It's also got the attack speed buff, a free AoE Esuna and a silence.

OR it's got a significant AoE Divine Seal, AoE Regen, and AoE magic defense. It's quite a bit more than a glorified Regen.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I'd argue you aren't giving the fairy enough credit. It's what allows SCH to spend 90-100% of the time dpsing in all content, barring the occasional adlo. It's also got the attack speed buff, a free AoE Esuna and a silence.

OR it's got a significant AoE Divine Seal, AoE Regen, and AoE magic defense. It's quite a bit more than a glorified Regen.

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AoE Divine Seal, AoE Regen, AoE magic defense and AoE esuna are abilities (off the global cooldown), so they are really not that amazing being on the fairies. The main benefit of the fairy is the embraces because it saves SCH from having to cast regens which saves saves them on full GCDs. I know whispering dawn is also a spell, but closest equivalent is asylum, which is an ability. Whispering dawn moved to the SCH would probably become an ability too.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

Snip.

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Oh, I know. I've played scholar, I'm aware of how the fairies work. I was just pointing out they do have mechanics and abilities as well, which would make them more than a Regen mechanic, at least IMHO. Now, if MCH got a turret that just did an AoE Regen, that WOULD be a glorified Regen mechanic, because that's literally all its used for.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I'd argue you aren't giving the fairy enough credit. It's what allows SCH to spend 90-100% of the time dpsing in all content, barring the occasional adlo. It's also got the attack speed buff, a free AoE Esuna and a silence.

OR it's got a significant AoE Divine Seal, AoE Regen, and AoE magic defense. It's quite a bit more than a glorified Regen.

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The fairy is certainly useful like all SCH strengths, but it's also limited, which is again part of SCH class design. You can have a regen, a divine seal effect, and a magic defense buff, or you can have a small haste buff, a silence, and an AoE Esuna, but not all six at once. Furthermore the regen is on a 60 second cooldown with a 15 yd radius from the fairy so make sure position it correctly before you pop it, and it has a duration of 21 seconds. Both Fey Covenant and Fey illumination (divine seal) last 20 seconds but have a 120 second cooldown that cannot be reduced so they're very limited in uptime. Alternatively you have Selene who has a 50% uptime 3% party haste (which is her best feature), a silence with a 40 second cooldown (and given fairy AI is difficult to get her to actually use on demand), and an AoE esuna which while useful, has a 60 second cooldown which is a serious limitation.

All of this is in line with the SCH design focus of powerful triggered abilities gated behind stacks and cooldowns. The class in general has poor basic healing function (meaning no basic large heals) supplemented with powerful options you can use to enhance them, but spread out and locked behind a resource and cooldown wall so that you can't spam them. This encourages you to plan your actions so that you don't find yourself crippled later.

And just to mention the new abilities, excogitation also requires an aetherize stack to use so it is largely an easier to use lustrate on the tank (650 potency vs lustrate's 600, and you're given leeway on timing it since it's proactive rather than reactive). It's a cool ability and it will be a lot of fun (which is important), but it retains the same resource cost as soil, indom, lustrate, and energy drain. Fey Union is nice because it's finally a reliable way to get the fairy to properly focus heal something, but it too is gated strongly behind aetherize usage since it only gains 10 meter points per stack consumed (and depletes 10 meter per tick) meaning on average you're looking at 3 ticks of it being available per minute unless you use dissipation, or 4 if the new aetherize talent procs.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

And just to mention the new abilities, excogitation also requires an aetherize stack to use so it is largely an easier to use lustrate on the tank (650 potency vs lustrate's 600, and you're given leeway on timing it since it's proactive rather than reactive). It's a cool ability and it will be a lot of fun (which is important), but it retains the same resource cost as soil, indom, lustrate, and energy drain. Fey Union is nice because it's finally a reliable way to get the fairy to properly focus heal something, but it too is gated strongly behind aetherize usage since it only gains 10 meter points per stack consumed (and depletes 10 meter per tick) meaning on average you're looking at 3 ticks of it being available per minute unless you use dissipation, or 4 if the new aetherize talent procs.

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Excogitation is interesting, as you say, for being a set-it-and-forget-it Lustrate (extra 50 potency is something, but obviously not a huge difference). I'm curious whether or not the Excogitation status persists indefinitely until the <50% HP trigger is met; the tooltip I saw showed the recast on the ability, but not the buff timer (if any). This is pretty important to the utility and efficiency of the skill since allowing Excog to remain in effect until needed lets the SCH effectively bank the required Aetherflow expenditure to a modest extent.

I'd prefer that Excog not require Aetherflow stacks since it competes with Energy Drain, Lustrate, and Indom(Soil is so situational that I don't think it deserves much mention as a competing skill), but with a 60-second recast, you can't exactly spam it, anyway. The ability to expend and replenish Aetherflow stacks like this before they are needed again does appeal, as does the potential for ease of split healing during intense mechanics, but I'm probably not as excited about this skill as I should be. It's mechanically sound and will definitely get use, so I can't complain in earnest, but it's hard not to look at either SCH or WHM and draw an unfavorable comparison to what AST has in store.

I was completely, totally satisfied with SCH when I first read the details. DPS nerf--expected. SCH has been top dog for a long time and something had to give. DPSing will be crazy boring now without stance dancing and like half a DOT to maintain but we\\'ll see.

Then I read the AST updates. Better at shields than SCH now! Assize on steroids. I enjoyed AST back in 3.0 and will continue to do so. BUT I am pretty bummed that on paper, aside from a party crit buff (that doesn\\'t even affect my chance to try and crit an adlo to deploy it, since AST can\\'t do that yet) there isn\\'t much reason to take a SCH over AST looking at shields only.

I think this all stemmed from them trying to make AST fill either role. In 2.0, both WHM and SCH had a totally separate identity. AST should have had its own as well. Instead they tried to make it a celestial clone instead of giving it a unique healing mechanic of its own.

I don't like how our Aetherflows was nerfed to 10% MP gain. And 30% MP cost was implemented. SCHs are supposed to be the kings of MP management. On top of that, Bane is totally nerfed to hell. And Shadow Flare supposedly took a hit as well. SMN/SCHs are AoEs masters when it comes to DoTs. SE really needs to stop nerfing all the jobs. And start looking at how ungodly they are making AST. AST is way too damn powerful. And I'm pissed about it. They are literally on the edge of taking over even an SCH's role. I mean, look at WHM. That job in itself was crushed. ASTs are supposed to be hybrids. Not the master of both SCH/WHM's worlds. I understand in HW, it needed buffed up. But this, is unjustly done.

SE, please wake up and realize the mistakes you are doing.

Also, to add onto this. During the vids and information I have seen. I have not seen anything that allowed Aetherflow to give us more than 3 stacks. Most of us SCHs were expecting at least one more stack in Heavensward. Why aren't we getting more Stacks for SCH/SMN?

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Originally Posted by VraeliaValkyria

Also, to add onto this. During the vids and information I have seen. I have not seen anything that allowed Aetherflow to give us more than 3 stacks. Most of us SCHs were expecting at least one more stack in Heavensward. Why aren't we getting more Stacks for SCH/SMN?

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To be fair, the trait that has a chance to proc Aetherflow CD reduction addresses this somewhat. Having a flat 4th stack would probably be preferable, but at least they gave some thought to upgrading the mechanic with level.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

To be fair, the trait that has a chance to proc Aetherflow CD reduction addresses this somewhat. Having a flat 4th stack would probably be preferable, but at least they gave some thought to upgrading the mechanic with level.

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10% chance to proc a reduction CD of Aetherflow is not my way of thinking they are making SCH better. Or anything else. When 10% is a lower chance than even trying to proc a Freecure on WHM. Giving us more stacks, would be the best way to go about this. It is LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG over due.