Selling/Buying clears, loot, mounts and titles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm against selling carries, completely, just as I am against selling fast Qs. We're the Warrior of Light, in keeping with that weshould have the personal commitment and integrity to help for the sake of helping.

Beyond that, I dislike mercenaries.

The emptiness of the achievement acquired in a carry reminds me of the emptiness people who cheat feel.

I think people buy clears out of laziness and incompetence.

---

I been thinking about this seeing the replies here, what is the correct view? In the end I do not think there is any, but conflicting perspective. Next I need compare it to something "free" If a person likes playing DPS, how are they wrong for asking a friend that likes to queue with them wrong? It can't be wrong, so why would it be wrong for paying someone for their time (doing the df with you) for gil? With that said, here are my answers.


1 - Are you against selling content to other players? Why?
No, you are basically buying someone's time. When I craft for people, like when I did 3 star when it was current, I would factor how long it takes to do it (since it was HQ requests ofc and it takes time, i did up to 4 hours of crafting for a person. So they better give a respect to pay for that time, it is no different to those that sell content. I would not do 4 hours a crafting for someone for free, or even 30 mins or 10 mins, so same with clearing something hard for the person.

2 - Why do you think people are buying clears, loot, etc..?
Easy, because they do not want to bother with PF horror stories, we have a thread (961 pages of this posting) on why people would lean on buying clears.

It's just not your business what other players do with their time or money, just like it's not my business what you do at home.

This isn't a dictatorship, you don't get the right to tell others what is right or what is wrong. You go about your way, and if you don't like something it's polite to keep it to yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moonlite

snip

---

I have helped friends through content myself (Ex primals, usually). But I wasn't carrying them. I know they could clear on their own. However, I chose to help them either because they asked, or to make it easier on them by having someone in the fight that knows the fight and what to do, knows the mechanics, how to handle said mechanics, and can call them out in case friend needs pointers/indicators, or just to have a friendly face in the group of strangers to make the learning party/clear less stressful (this is usually the case for one of my friends who suffers from mild autism; it helps her to have someone she knows in new content just because she feels a bit more relaxed and not alone). I wouldn't call that carrying, because my friends put forth the effort to try and earn their clear, and if they feel like they didn't do well enough in the fight, they feel like they were undeserving of any rewards they get, compared to some of these players who just don't care about their performance but will gladly roll Need on that pony whistle or bird lanner (and who, for whatever reason, always seem to win it). Have there been some times where I've helped friends and they made several mistakes (some of them the same mistake) and died a lot? Yes, there have been. But they always learned or tried to learn from those mistakes, and tried to improve themselves. That's not what I would consider carrying.

What I consider carrying are these individuals that pay people to essentially clear content for them while they do the bare minimum, or nothing at all, like dying in the middle of a fight, raising, and then standing outside of boss rooms. Or barely putting out enough DPS that there's no way they aren't just spamming 1-2-3 basic combos, or even doing much more than auto-attacking. That's what I consider carrying. Not just helping people learn and clear content. Sorry if I am misinterpreting your post, but since you are saying "shame on you all" to basically everyone in this thread for only answering the OP's post that asks for our opinions/thoughts on the topic, I figured I would post my two Gil on what I consider carrying to be. I'm sure not everyone who buys clears are the type to just want to be carried through the content; however, I just can't agree with the practice because it's not something that I would ever do.



@Ama_Hamada - While these are just my thoughts on your second point, I would much rather deal with a "PF horror story" than feel like I didn't earn a clear for something. To me, nothing feels worse than feeling like I was carried through something, and I say this with regards to more than just duties in this video game. If I achieve something, but don't feel like I did enough to earn it, it ruins the entire thing for me.

I know you've seen my posts in the Duty Finder thread; I have several tales from DF/PF/RF, and I have shared numerous ones on this forum, and even a couple on FFXIV's subreddit. But, at the end of the day, whether I suffered or not, I earned my clears, my mounts, and my titles though my own effort, skill, and hard work. That's worth the "horror stories," at least, for me. Because I worked hard, and through my own blood, sweat, and tears, earned something. Maybe it's just how I was raised, because I was raised believing that if you wanted to achieve something, you worked for it. Sometimes you had to work hard for it--you didn't sit around and complain until it was handed to you; you didn't pay people to do it for you. That way, when you earned it, you felt like you had truly accomplished something; like you truly deserved everything you worked to achieve. How I was raised was probably also why I just can't agree with buying content; speaking with regards to my own ethics, I just can't agree with it.



But, again, these are just my thoughts and my opinions, and I know others won't share them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and no one's opinions are right or wrong--some I just simply disagree with. Which is okay, because I'm certain people will disagree with mine. Such is the way of life, and the world would probably be pretty boring if we all shared the same opinions on everything. Like I said in my first comment in this thread: I may not agree with it, but it still happens, there's nothing I can do to stop it, and I don't see the need to make a big fuss over it. I just don't want to deal with those who bought carries (note how I said "carries" here and not just general "clears") joining farm groups I'm in, and essentially hoping we either won't notice that they have no idea what they're doing, or just expect us to deal with it and carry them for free.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yeol

This is not a new thing to FFXIV nor it is against the rules as long as real life currencies are not involved.

I have two question regarding this topic:
1 - Are you against selling content to other players? Why?
2 - Why do you think people are buying clears, loot, etc..?

---

1. Of course not. I'd actually feel kinda good about myself and my team if we had the skill to do these battles while missing one of any role. If there wasn't a demand, there wouldn't be a supply.
2. All of those and more. I know in my case, I bought some clears simply because nobody else was doing the content. Sat in DF for 8 hours, nobody joined. Put up PFs for days, nobody joined. I had no static and no friends, so there was literally no other option. The crazy part is at least one of them was a fight I already had on farm.

Really it's nothing but paid sherpas

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

@Ama_Hamada - While these are just my thoughts on your second point, I would much rather deal with a "PF horror story" than feel like I didn't earn a clear for something. To me, nothing feels worse than feeling like I was carried through something, and I say this with regards to more than just duties in this video game. If I achieve something, but don't feel like I did enough to earn it, it ruins the entire thing for me.I know you've seen my posts in the Duty Finder thread; I have several tales from DF/PF/RF, and I have shared numerous ones on this forum, and even a couple on FFXIV's subreddit. But, at the end of the day, whether I suffered or not, I earned my clears, my mounts, and my titles though my own effort, skill, and hard work. That's worth the "horror stories," at least, for me. Because I worked hard, and through my own blood, sweat, and tears, earned something. Maybe it's just how I was raised, because I was raised believing that if you wanted to achieve something, you worked for it. Sometimes you had to work hard for it--you didn't sit around and complain until it was handed to you; you didn't pay people to do it for you. That way, when you earned it, you felt like you had truly accomplished something; like you truly deserved everything you worked to achieve. How I was raised was probably also why I just can't agree with buying content; speaking with regards to my own ethics, I just can't agree with it.

---

It is something I am unlikely to do, outside rare circumstances and not something I have not done yet. But I am a crafter and know how make tons of gil, that also requires skill and patience. People should not look down on the person paying me 4 hours for a crafting order, paying me for my time, just like someone else may do for clears, or whatever.

While I would never buy a clear myself, I couldn't care less what someone else does. For some raiders, being a mercenary is their sole source of income. The way I see it, when Stormblood launches, crafters knowingly price gouge people by selling weapons, food and pots at exceedingly high value. Why? Because they can and stuff sells at those prices. Selling content isn't that much different in a sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

While I would never buy a clear myself, I couldn't care less what someone else does. For some raiders, being a mercenary is their sole source of income. The way I see it, when Stormblood launches, crafters knowingly price gouge people by selling weapons, food and pots at exceedingly high value. Why? Because they can and stuff sells at those prices. Selling content isn't that much different in a sense.

---

Not that simple, it is more supply and demand thing and the fact getting the materials cost much more for the same reason. It is very hard to place a true value on new items and no one wants to lose money from time invested x material cost x risk of buying high cost materials x competing with undercutters x cost of being able make x item (like max melding for 4 star). You have to set it high so when someone undercuts you, you undercuut them back and your not selling at a loss by the time it does sell. Then ofc it is up to the buyer to determine if it is worth it to them.

Even in real life, you always ask more then you expect, because if you start out with your expected price, people will haggle down you to a price you may dislike, you have to expect it.

If they buy something that I find a high price, it is instantly replaced, so that is that motivation to have something listed vs nothing at all. When I sell it at an average price or low price, I do not drop everything I am doing to replace it.

This reminds me ...
Back in the day, in Lineage 1, we formed a clan that acted as mercenaries during the siege times. We were paid with IN-GAME currency, to just be there to either defend or attack. We always had a blast.

There is nothing wrong with it, and it shouldn't be against the rules (and it isn't right now). It is just like any other market place, I am selling my services, my expertise, my knowledge and MY time, for gil. Someone with a rich dad or a thick wallet or a generous FC, I don't know, and don't care, is willing to pay top gil for my said services. It is win-win.

This reminds me, I should remake the old lineage clan as a link/static and what not here in FFXIV for mounts/loot/clears and whatever it is we can squeeze out of people's pocket.
(PS: I am on Moogle, anyone wants to join drop me a line, peace!)