Nerfing Healer Role Through Content

I've always seen it from the other side. It isn't that healers or tanks are so powerful that is the problem.

It's that 99.9% of the games mobs are designed to be "trash". They pose no threat at all... That's why tanks can tank 20 of them at a time.. because there designed to be "trash".

You can complete a lot of the games content without a healer at all. Can do a lot of it without a tank. Some of it you could probably do with just dps...

I think that highlights that it isn't that healers or tanks are too powerful that is true. Because even when removed entirely the content is still doable...

The problem is that virtually everything is deliberately designed to be weak and labelled as "trash" and simply doesn't pose a threat.

Even at 230 you can do sohmm hard with a tank and 3 dps. It's not powerful healers because you've basically removed them entirely and still able to clear it..

Pretty sure the main-healer/off-healer meta around which the OP's logic revolves is really bad for the community, bad for DPS, and bad for team synergy. It should go away.

Why people hate healers SO MUCH? I mean in every game they are the ones to blame for EVERYTHING, if dps is not enoug, lets blame the healer for not helpingour POOR dps, If i dont evade AOE, lets blame healers cause its their work to keep me healed, if they are too strong, lets ask for a nerf (holy) if they are too weak lets ask them for more dps.

Lets just ask SE to erase healers from existence, please, so DPS and tanks can do any savage content by themselves, PLEASE.

It's the double whammy of healer mistakes generally being the most obvious, and when the worst does happen it's usually other people that get killed. Instant recipe for rage =(

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Another alternative option for properly intensive healing, get 8 like minded people who want to be challenged by something different and queue for 8 man stuff at min ilvl.

Even good old Titan HM is utterly vicious done like this.

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I wanted a real challenge yesterday, so I put up a PF for TitanEX with 4 players (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps), and SYNCED, with no Echo. Technically the options don't allow that, but we worked around it by having 4 people join as volunteer dropouts haha. It took us about 45 minutes, but we cleared it like that. And it was the most fun I've had in ages. The hardest part was probably on the tank to time Hallowed Ground and lose the Vuln Up stacks. I want to try ShivaEX like that next, assuming it's actually possible to 4-man it (I'm guessing it is, but the DPS checks might be a problem...)

Nice! The EX primals were fantastic bosses and it's good to see people going back and using them in different ways <3

As far as Shiva goes, as long as you have enough HP to survive the stack and shared cleave with 4 you should be ok, I remember carrying training runs through this fight for 10+ minutes at a time and I'm struggling to remember an enrage. It always seemed to be a back to back run of staff phases that would grind us down.

If you want further recommendations after that, I throw BCOB Turn 4 into the hat! Not sure what it syncs down to, but if it's around 100ish it should be a really good challenge for 4 due to how buffed the dreadnoughts will get ;)

[General]

Healing is not breeze easy. If you cleared content with good time level and Echo (Which buffs healing and dps) you won't find it that hard.
But try doing it at lower item level or even at the same item level but without Echo. You will notice a big difference when your healing and dps goes down by 15%.

Also, there is no such a thing as main-healer and off-healer in raids. Both have to balance their healing together.
There is shielding type and regen type. One is good at preventing damage and one is better at restoring HP.
The better protection one offers the less the other has to heal in general. Which is why they should work together.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Some of it you could probably do with just dps...

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Some of it, you could. Most you couldn't - it depends on the amount of damage that is un-avoidable. Ravana EX is a typical target for no healer runs, simply because he spends a lot of time channeling avoidable mechanics.

On the flipside, just lately, A11S and A12S have been done with only tanks. I doubt we'll see the same with 8 DPS anytime soon (not before Unsynced for sure). I'd not be surprised if 8 healers could do it, though. Similarly, PotD solo rankings are lead by healers and tanks, the exception being summoner, who is tank, healer and DPS all in one package with Sustain and Titan Egi. And in PvP, teams without healers are at a pretty big disadvantage (up to a point because no cleric stance). Less so with tanks, because their mitigation isn't relevant when nobody attacks them.

It goes to show that tanks and healers are, in fact, too powerful. Just about everything a group of full DPS can do, a group of full tanks or healers can do better, easier and more conveniently. They can do far more than DPS as well, both solo and in a group.

And that's not mutually exclusive with some content being do-able without them. That only exacerbates the issue and trying to fix it via content only means one thing: Perpetuating it.

You can do that. You can make it so tanks mitigate 99,999% of all incoming damage and then make mobs hit so hard that you need that mitigation in order to survive while everyone else gets one-shot. But that then means that you can never fix the underlying imbalance such mitigation causes with the other roles, because you now "need" that broken mitigation, so you can't remove it anymore without tuning the damage down as well, at which point... why didn't you tune down the mitigation in the first place?

The same applies to healers, naturally. And to DPS as well.