The Remaining Healers

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Still hoping for a healer that is based in TP.

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I would be very worried about a healer based on TP, because I feel like it would be a lot easier to run out of than MP. I mean, I'm sure they could manage it somehow, but it would be tricky. And if you essentially let this theoretical TP healer have unlimited TP, then there's no real reason to use TP in the first place, is there?

I imagine, much like how they made dark knight go from sacrificing HP to using MP, they'd veer away from having a TP-based healer. But what do I know?

EDIT: Can anyone come up with a healer concept that doesn't use MP or TP? Or maybe only uses TP for big heals? That could be interesting. Or a terrible idea!

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Originally Posted by Talraen

A white mage would have much higher "EHP" than a red mage in this case, given that their HP, armor, and healing capabilities are always as good or better. They even get shields sometimes! Should they also be tanks?

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At least early on in Final Fantasy I red mages had better armor than white mages. Worse HP, though, though from the bases it's just three less.

I'll have to do more in-depth research later, but the scales definitely aren't as tipped in the white mage's favor as you seem to be making them.

First thought I got was chemist with three or four medium ocd heals on a short CD, a small to based heal, and a large tp heavy heal. I'll sit down a bit and see if I can think of anything more concrete.

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Originally Posted by ErdrickLoto

At least early on in Final Fantasy I red mages had better armor than white mages. Worse HP, though, though from the bases it's just three less.

I'll have to do more in-depth research later, but the scales definitely aren't as tipped in the white mage's favor as you seem to be making them.

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By all means, please do research! I highly recommend my own guide site, http://guides.gamercorner.net/ff/. It has all the information you could ever want on a game that I've been obsessed with for years.

With that said, I can tell you right now what the conclusion is. Here's the list of armor a red wizard can use that a white wizard can't (using NES names):
Wooden armor
Chain armor
Silver armor
Buckler
Silver gauntlet (red wizard only)
Zeus gauntlet (red wizard only)
Power gauntlet (red wizard only)

White wizards have only one piece of armor red wizards can't use, the white shirt.

The chain armor is the reason people think red mages are good tanks: it's the best armor available in Coneria by far, and is only usable by fighters and red mages. However in terms of armor that's better than what other mages get, that's it. Their next unique upgrade is the silver armor, which is slightly better but doesn't become available until you have the magic key, at which point you've also found silver bracelets. Silver bracelets are available to everyone, have the same absorb as chain armor, but have a much smaller evasion penalty (even than the silver armor). Basically, once you reach this point, red mage armor goes from way better than other mages' to slightly better than other mages'. Once you get the airship, you can get gold bracelets, and the red mage loses any body armor advantage.

The buckler is a legit win for the red mage, but it's worth only two absorb, and in the very long run is replaced by the ProCape anyway (and anyone can use those). The various gauntlets are another interesting case. You can (and should) get the better ProRings as soon as you have an airship, while the gauntlets require the class upgrade to be used. They may see use on a red mage for their abilities (especially if you're playing on an NES where inventory space is at a premium), but they're never a defense upgrade over other mages.

So in conclusion, red mages have better armor than other mages, and in fact every other class in the game except fighters, up until you finish the Marsh Cave and defeat Astos. Which is a part of the game a lot of people remember because it's such a pain. But it's less than 1/4 of the way through the game, and after that point red mage armor is essentially the same as any other mage. By the time of the class change it's identical.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

They've always been the tankier of the mages

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Talraen pointed out how in FF1 this is untrue (with numbers), but I'm going to give more examples of where this is untrue.

FFIII
RDM had 30 Vitality in the original game, increased to 63 on the remake. WHM had 50, increased to 63.

FFV
I was a bit off on something. Bard and Dancer are fairly squishy too.
WHM has a base Stamina of +0, BLM has -3, RDM has -6. BRD and DNC have -9 and -10 respectively.

FFXII (Zodiac)
WHM gains +1360 HP, RDM gains +1235. Granted, RDM can equipment shields and some heavy armour. But BLM is weird. Ithe can gain up to +1610 HP while also being able to equip some heavy armour.

Dancer and Chemist are all I can think of.

Red Mage, Oracle/Mystic, Chemist, Orator, Necromancer, Illusionist - all can fit the healer role very well.

The now permanently ruined LOTRO had a healer/buff class - minstrel. This in keeping with Tolkien's emphasis on songs as magic, rather than traditional elemental magic. (The Loremaster did that.)

Actually, it was quite unique in gaming history to have a toon strum a lute, or tap a drum to get the induction/animation, and the effects were quite original as well adding a sort of charm to what otherwise would have sounded like a battlefront. (Nothing like the constant sound of STONES ... annoying, but I digress.)

The music angle aside, what the toon did was buff the group or heal. Mass or individual heals weren't favored, but the preferred heal healed the group in a fabulous green sweep. Other skills would increase a group's induction speed, skill speed, heal rate over time, and of course armor or damage intensity.

The buffs were relatively varied in strength with the ability to crit. They were timed, lasting ten to fifteen seconds per application - however with two group buffs obtained just by having the well-skilled in the group with you...if you stood decently close enough.

The top end minstrel had two nuke heals with a thirty minute cool down (one with a lot of health returned, one with hardly any) and that all important in-combat rez.

Can someone just explain to me how they are suppose to market Red Mage? I'm one of those that don't think they are going to add Red Mage. Purely because I don't think it's going to draw new people to the game. Especially when the budget for Stormblood has increased dramatically over Heavensward. They are going to add jobs that come across as 'flashy', like the HW jobs.

Red Mage might strike at a fraction of people for nostalgia purposes but the majority of people won't know what Red Mage is and will think it's bornig.

I'm coming at this logically, the marketing potential is what's going to determine 4.0 jobs, not fan desire