Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

With those 3...

Samurai Tank
Red Mage Healer
Dancer DPS (in the same vein as Bard)

I wonder if they could add new base classes instead of just jobs, because that way they could add more Jobs in the same matter how ACN is used by both SMN and SCH as a base class...

In the end though, someone is going to rage in the coming months "why is ___ a heal/dps/tank!?" It's best to just relax and not worry or get your hopes up about the role.

So what? Because the tank role is less popular so we're gonna keep sacrificing good jobs like Dark Knight and Samurai to be a boring punching bag?

If you want something for the tank players, you can get Barbarian, Warlock, or Viking.

Non-tank players aren't gonna switch to play tank anyway.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Non-tank players aren't gonna switch to play tank anyway.

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This simply isn't true... I didn't pick up Dark Knight with Heavensward because I love tanking, I spent 2.0 on Scholar, until Ninja replaced it for me... Yet here I am, playing Dark Knight and upgrading its damned hideous Anima weapon first...

Tank retention alone should warrant serious consideration when looking to Samurai being DPS over Tank. You need Tanks to clear content, to level new jobs, play the game... Not incentivising this (admittedly small) player base would only serve to highlight a problem MMORPG's have had since inception, every body wants the next big thing... Having the players leave DRK, PLD, and WAR to level DPS SAM would have four Samurai in Palace of the dead tripping over landmines or roaming in fate armies to level...

Congratulations, you can now pose epically behind the enemy with your cloth wearing sword DPS while your bird Tanks for you, amazing way to showcase the proud honorable Samurai.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

This simply isn't true... I didn't pick up Dark Knight with Heavensward because I love tanking, I spent 2.0 on Scholar, until Ninja replaced it for me... Yet here I am, playing Dark Knight and upgrading its damned hideous Anima weapon first...

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Likewise, I refused to tank and actually disliked it. Tried Dark and ended up MTing for my raid group for several months till we disbanded. Some will try it simply cus its a new class but yes, some people are stubborn and won't budge on Tanks no matter how many are made and that is their loss.

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Originally Posted by AlphaFox

Likewise, I refused to tank and actually disliked it. Tried Dark and ended up MTing for my raid group for several months till we disbanded. Some will try it simply cus its a new class but yes, some people are stubborn and won't budge on Tanks no matter how many are made and that is their loss.

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Certainly, one of the key complaints with Dark Knight is that the Jobs historical skills simply don't make for a tank, yet I'd say Dark Knight is a pretty faithful to the Job... Dropping Grit amounts to sacrificing defense for damage, and Dark Arts has me sacrificing MP for damage, OK it's not HP, but it's close enough IMO (though I wouldn't mind a Meditate/Convert style skill come 4.0), and the Drain aspect of the Job is just wonderful here, IMO... I'll never get tired of Abyssal Drain on large pulls... Would there even be a point to Drain on a DPS?

It's unmistakably Dark Knight, IMO... The fact that tanks are just a stance off away from practically being DPS anyway doesn't hurt either... Sure I'll never out damage my Ninja, but I'll still out damage half the DPS I see in Duty Finder anyway...

It's a shame some people just refuse to tank... I'd actually say it's the strongest role in the game... DPS tend to have more interesting mechanics, but good luck surviving anything long enough to enjoy them...

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Originally Posted by Alacran

Tank retention alone should warrant serious consideration when looking to Samurai being DPS over Tank. You need Tanks to clear content, to level new jobs, play the game... Not incentivising this (admittedly small) player base would only serve to highlight a problem MMORPG's have had since inception, every body wants the next big thing... Having the players leave DRK, PLD, and WAR to level DPS SAM would have four Samurai in Palace of the dead tripping over landmines or roaming in fate armies to level...

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While we do need to keep tank jobs coming and the role interesting, I'm not sure what about Samurai would actually make it any more interesting than the current tank jobs. Red Mage or Dancer as a tank would be really weird to see, but could bring something different to the role.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

While we do need to keep tank jobs coming and the role interesting, I'm not sure what about Samurai would actually make it any more interesting than the current tank jobs. Red Mage or Dancer as a tank would be really weird to see, but could bring something different to the role.

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I imagine most see it as a very counter-based tank, with an entire rotation built around the Sheltron/Shield Swipe/Reprisal mechanics tanks barely touch on currently... Personally I think Blue Mage is much more suited to that role, though Red Mage could easily fill it as well, if they go down the fencing route enough...

Ideally (and briefly), I'd like to see;

Tanks
Blue Mage - Counter-based tank.
Beast Master - Pet-based tank.

Healers
Dancer - TP/MP hybrid healer.
Chemist - TP based healer.

DPS
Samurai - ranged/melee hybrid, "true" ranged DPS, no shitty support aspects weighing down the damage potential.
Red Mage - TP/MP hybrid DPS.

Beyond that I think we start getting too much overlap with existing Jobs, and most of the more niche Jobs are already potentially rolled into existing ones and/or are too broken... Time Mage lives on in Astrologian, for example. Mystic Knight, just like with Final Fantasy XI, would be absorbed by Red Mage. Stuff like Barbarian or Viking have been rolled into Warrior. There are perhaps some Jobs I'm forgetting about, or just lack the imagination to adapt uniquely into XIV, but for now those are the Jobs I'd expect... I think it balances out quite nicely, we'd have three pet based Jobs for example, spread across all three roles... Red Mage/Dark Knight/Dancer all function as hybrids across the roles... Starts to fall apart from there, but you get the idea...

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Originally Posted by aesteval

While we do need to keep tank jobs coming and the role interesting, I'm not sure what about Samurai would actually make it any more interesting than the current tank jobs. Red Mage or Dancer as a tank would be really weird to see, but could bring something different to the role.

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Honestly and with all respect, in my opinion a RDM Tank would simply look like a better dressed PLD... a single sword with white magic skills offset by a few black magic skills for good measure, A Tank DNC would be slightly more interesting however it's lack of armor would mean any hit even if built off evasion Tanking would be crippling.

As a simple fan of martial arts and warrior cultures from history and fantasy i can tell you now in my own studies, Katana and Two handed swords (Montante, Claymore, Zweihander, Bearing Sword, ect...) are not handled the same way, to say nothing of the Soul Edge cleavers and Dragon Slayers we DRK's wield... To say that "we already have a two handed sword Tank!" is simply wrong, we have high fantasy based Dark Knight using Darkness and an over large blade almost to heavy to swing. It is nothing like a Samurai's use of a Katana. The fact that as a DRK my hate combo closer has me shooting out a bolt of dark energy pretty much thematically shows it to be a Magic and Melee Job something that RDM can only hope to copy in the same role...

In my ideal build for SAM Tank i see a Draw-Out (FFT) ability that promotes aggressive skill use through AOE buffs to melee DPS (hp, mp, tp, ss, def, vit, str, eva, ect...). Something that my mind would allow more of a zerg like playstyle among melee DPS (DRG, MNK, NIN,)