Why not nerf relic 80 material grind too?

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

If they never nerf the relic grind, only the people who played when it was released will ever get a completed one when its still usefull, everyone that starts one a few months later will never catch up.

You talk about alternatives, plural. The only alternatives I see are :
- primal weapons : not everybody has the skill to complete ex primals, a lot of our FC are still butting our heads against sephirot ex. we are not even considering farming for the weapon.

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If you don't have the skills to complete the extreme primals, there is absolutely no reason why you would even need a relic weapon. The relics are not supposed to be for the majority of the playerbase. The lore weapons are ridiculously easy to get. The relic weapon is also extremely easy, it just takes a while if you don't want to grind it. I don't understand why people want the relic nerfed so badly if they have no intention of completing the harder content. It's just not needed.

What kind of amuses me is all this talk about the easier alternatives and that being the reason it shouldn't be nerfed.

And yet the "strongest" line of reasoning for adjusting it all has to do with alternatives - namely how the process to 210 was originally described as being designed in its current fashion because it was meant as the equivalent alternative to the only other item level weapon at the time, and so the process was meant to be the time based equivalent to getting a 210 weapon in Gordias Savage.

Whether it actually achieved that equivalency is certainly up for debate...but if we're talking about alternatives, then by the developers own original reasoning then it would have to be nerfed in some form or fashion due to the situation that led to its current design no longer being an applicable situation.

Note that I'm not saying it's hard, or easy, or that I think it needs a nerf or what not...just following the line of reasoning originally set down by the devs as it relates to alternatives.

I know Titan hm was hard for many in the 2.0 relic but doing the five trials and some tomes beats the crap out of beast tribes every day and hunting zergs. Which they would give relic another path through hard content. Coil synced, current primals, so on and so forth. That way there is an easy way to get the relic over time or You can work on actual hard content and get it done fast. Then leave it to the players to decided which route they want to take or mix of the two routes to finish that step of relic.

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Originally Posted by WinterLuna

If you don't have the skills to complete the extreme primals, there is absolutely no reason why you would even need a relic weapon. The relics are not supposed to be for the majority of the playerbase. The lore weapons are ridiculously easy to get. The relic weapon is also extremely easy, it just takes a while if you don't want to grind it. I don't understand why people want the relic nerfed so badly if they have no intention of completing the harder content. It's just not needed.

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I'm not saying it should be nerfed right now, but the first steps should be a bit by the time the next relic step comes along. So people stand a chance of catching up not for me to get an easy weapon.
Relics purpose as I understand it is to give everyone a chance at a current weapon independent of skill level.
By your argument if we dont do ex primals/alex savage we also shouldnt bother with lore gear since its the same level as the relic weapon. Which also means there is little point in doing the ex roulette dungeons.
Besides i'm curious how well you would handel midas normal with an esoterics weapon which is the highest non primal/gordias/lore weapon i know unless i'm forgetting one.

Myself i have my completed bow and by tuesday i expect to have my WAR weapon completed. After which i'll focus on the WHM one. All done unnerfed.

It's not hard, just boring. Devs need to realize running the same thing over and over again is not fun. I wish they'd stop using the relic quest as way to recycle old content. What they should have done in 2.2 is balance the cost of items with ESO tomes. In 2.1, dungeons gave a lot more law tomes. In 2.2 they dropped law, replaced with ESO and the ESO reward is smaller, but the price stayed the same. It takes more grinding in 2.2 to get these items than it did in 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

And yet the "strongest" line of reasoning for adjusting it all has to do with alternatives - namely how the process to 210 was originally described as being designed in its current fashion because it was meant as the equivalent alternative to the only other item level weapon at the time, and so the process was meant to be the time based equivalent to getting a 210 weapon in Gordias Savage.

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It was meant as an alternative to the Gordias Savage weapon for people who needed those weapons to clear A4s (and, to a lesser degree, the previous floors), where those weapons dropped (there's a reason A7s drops the weapon upgrades this time, not A8s). Not for random people who wanted a 210 weapon for running experts or whatever. You don't need the best weapons in the game if you just run Experts every day or do an occasional Extreme primal. You really only need them if you do Savage, and only then.

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Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

for people who needed those weapons to clear A4S

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Kinda defeats the purpose when getting the ilvl210 Weapon takes too long for many compared to some who gotten it within a few weeks and even then A3S was pretty damn hard and most static dropped by that point. What good is the weapon if no one is running Savage and even then WITH the weapon and gear it was still hard for most to clear it.


I want the Relic becomes I want a mystic weapon to use for everything, not just Raiding. An all-purpose weapon really with special abilities which sadly the Relic will never have special abilities attached to them.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

By your argument if we dont do ex primals/alex savage we also shouldnt bother with lore gear since its the same level as the relic weapon. Which also means there is little point in doing the ex roulette dungeons.

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But nobody is asking for the lore gear to be nerfed or made easier to get. Again, it boils down to the fact that if you don't want to put in the effort to get one, then simply don't get one. My point was that it's not necessary to have a relic weapon if you're not planning to do content which requires it (well, not even requires, but made easier).

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Originally Posted by _slowpoke_

It was meant as an alternative to the Gordias Savage weapon for people who needed those weapons to clear A4s (and, to a lesser degree, the previous floors), where those weapons dropped (there's a reason A7s drops the weapon upgrades this time, not A8s). Not for random people who wanted a 210 weapon for running experts or whatever. You don't need the best weapons in the game if you just run Experts every day or do an occasional Extreme primal. You really only need them if you do Savage, and only then.

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Two things:

1) That's not actually true. It's designed as a weapon meant to be acquired over time without having to do any raiding...which is why it doesn't require any raiding. Who it is intended for at that point is not relevant as it related to the difficulty of obtaining it. That's what the previous relic was, that's what this one is. It's ultimately the non-raiders alternative (the whole no raids required thing attests to that), so there's pretty much zero chance that it was "meant as an alternative to the Gordias Savage weapon for people who needed those weapons to clear A4S" and that you somehow don't need it if you aren't raiding. That it's meant for the raiders is something of your own invention.

2) Even if that were true, none of that is actually relevant to my point (nor is who it was designed for relevant to why it was designed with the particular process it requires right now), which is simply reiterating what the developers said and drawing one potential line of reasoning directly from it. Since that reasoning has to do with how the process at the time was designed to "match" the difficulty of getting a 210 weapon from the raid (Yoshi-P outright said they made it as "difficult" as they did because it was the same item level as the Gordias Savage weapons and they felt they needed to make it comparable difficult to obtain, just via time instead of skill), and how that particular situation of the difficulty of only being able to obtain a weapon of the same item level from a raid no longer applies...

Then the strongest line of reasoning for any adjustments to it is that the function it served as a non-raid required alternative, meant to be as difficult to obtain as a 210 weapon from Gordias Savage but via time and acquisition of items outside of raiding and those being your only two options so they felt they had to have some form of equivalency in how difficult they were to obtain, no longer applies.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Then the strongest line of reasoning for any adjustments to it is that the function it served as a non-raid required alternative, meant to be as difficult to obtain as a 210 weapon from Gordias Savage but via time and acquisition of items outside of raiding and those being your only two options so they felt they had to have some form of equivalency in how difficult they were to obtain, no longer applies.

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They were in 3.1 an alternative to Gordias Savage weapon, but we have 3.2 now.
Now it is an alternative to get a ilevel 230 weapon and to be prepared for a ilevel 240 weapon, not Gordias Savage weapon. And the ilevel 230 step didn't add much time on the total needed time on the questline if started at step 1, so the time to complete the quests didn't get longer with 3.2

Or where are all those "3.2 relic step need too much time" threads?
Wait until 3.3, this is where the devs will nerf the ilevel 210 step so that the whole questline still need 1.5 - 2 months to do.