Lessons from red scrips for 3.3

Take a look at the DoL and DoH forums, OP. You're not alone. There are a few people who like the system, but they messed up DoL and DoH endgame progression hard in Heavensward. Getting to 1 star is pretty tough; getting to 2 stars is difficult; getting to 3 stars is damn near impossible.

There's also the fact that they completely botched Red Scrip gathering, and set the minimum threshold unreasonably high (to where you cannot actually get red scrip items without HQ crafted pieces and melds that you cannot accomplish on your own).

The broken state of endgame DoH and DoL had actually made me give up on trying to progress either one anymore, and I'm really hoping they take a good hard look at it in 3.3 and 4.0. Neither the specialist system, nor collectible gathering/synthesis, nor the favor system are fun, engaging, or entertaining, and none of them make the game better than it was before.

Given that 3.3 will be adding a new tier of DoL/DoH gear I'm expecting the scrips system to be adjusted in some way to make it easier to catch up. Combat jobs can always really easily catch up to the tier immediately prior to the current highest. With the way red scrips work at present , if they don't make it easier to catch up then most new crafters would be better off waiting for the next expansion before even bothering...

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

This always raises an interesting point for me. Your entertaining yourself with something else WHILE playing a video game that should be entertaining you in the first place. If i have to do something else while playing a game then there is something wrong with the game in question.

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it's just his personal problem, he do not like the game and wants to afk while the game plays for himself, like feast afk tomestone farmers or people who use macros and don't wanna press buttons themselves.

A few days ago I learned from these forums that mmo games have programs which allow them to play other games at the same time.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

it's just his personal problem, he do not like the game and wants to afk while the game plays for himself, like feast afk tomestone farmers or people who use macros and don't wanna press buttons themselves.

A few days ago I learned from these forums that mmo games have programs which allow them to play other games at the same time.

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What? You're making an incredibly huge leap of logic here, if you can even call it that. I mean, I sit and read a book all the time while I fish. That doesn't mean I want to afk while the game fishes for me. It just means fishing is incredibly repetitive and I'd like to do something besides stare at the scenery in Azys Lla while I do it. The post you quoted was replying to a person saying that they were able to their gathering scrips in 90 minutes while watching TV because they unlocked the folklore books; I don't see how that equates to wanting the game played for you in the slightest. It just means he's doing something out of game while he waits for the nodes to pop. How does tabbing out to watch an episode of a show (or watching it on a second monitor or on your TV) equate to not liking the game and wanting it played for you? Please explain because I'm not seeing the connection here.

You pretty much flung logic completely out the window when you compared gathering while watching TV and/or using macros for crafting to afk'ing in feast for tomes. If I'm crafting any item in mass quantity either for sale or my own use, you bet your butt I'm using macros. We have them for a reason. Clicking every skill individually over and over and over... just... no thanks. That's way too many opportunities to screw up when I'm making hundreds of food items to sell. You show me a crafter that doesn't use macros and I'll show you someone that either doesn't craft things en masse or is using their time terribly inefficiently.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

This always raises an interesting point for me. Your entertaining yourself with something else WHILE playing a video game that should be entertaining you in the first place. If i have to do something else while playing a game then there is something wrong with the game in question.

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We clearly have different expectations from a MMO. I don't want all content to require my full attention in an attempt to entertain me every second I play.

Gathering is nice casual content, where I can give it half my attention while watching the news, reruns, or a documentary about Hitler's dentist's great-uncle. Favors were the exact opposite of that, which is one of the big reasons that I hate them.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

We clearly have different expectations from a MMO. I don't want all content to require my full attention in an attempt to entertain me every second I play.

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Certainly everybody has different expectations of an MMO. Personally i would like the content that i pay a monthly fee for to entertain me enough that i don't need other entertainment like Netflix to make it bearable (which i also have to pay monthly fee for), but thats just me and my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

Certainly everybody has different expectations of an MMO. Personally i would like the content that i pay a monthly fee for to entertain me enough that i don't need other entertainment like Netflix to make it bearable (which i also have to pay monthly fee for), but thats just me and my opinion.

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It's a line between the two. Gathering can only be so interesting, and if an aspect of a game manages to be boring to the point that I can't make it enjoyable (be it with ingame content or outside content like netflix), it's a bigger problem beyond the scope of that. Fishing can be relaxing for me when I can just do it without too much of a care (compared to other aspects of the game, it's something I can do without too much commitment without detriment to the others). Favors on the other hand, requires my full attention if I want to get the extent of it's cost (which is weekly locked)

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

Correct. 3.2 was a step in the right direction (crafting mats easily available for anybody who could attempt 3-stars, or for those who just wanted to sell items for quick gil). I'm hoping that continues in some fashion in 3.3 in regards to red scrips. One of the easiest ways to ease the red scrip system for crafters is to remove the need for DoL tokens to spend your red scrips to attempt crafts for progress.

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don't get me wrong, the idea behind allows the people to buy craft material throught eso is nice, sadly, they haven't touched the recquirement of the i180 crafted gear, when you see that the i220 recquire the dissolvent 1, when the i180 recquire the 2 is stupid...

most of the crafting in HW is a mess, the progression from 50-60 is bad in many way, a lot of timed material for a progression craft that will mostly not be used for long. the add of the dissolvent was a bad idea too, since they have notice that the alchemist was one of the less desirable craft they have try to push it into every craft, instead to work on them own forte.... the potion, why not rework this freaking useless system. all the potion when you reach i200+ are simply garbage that have almost no impact and interest. that where it was better to work on.

the overuse of timed node and rare was idiot too in the progression, what the point? make it long because the expert of ARR was doing this, but that a freaking progression craft. i will not talk about the legend book and the 99 item recquirement or the favor system, all this system are simply garbarge used for what? limite the progression of the crafter, what it did give us? some stuff at price that are simply insane. only a very small part of the playerbase can afford to purchase stuff crafted...

and i want to point out the gp regeneration that a total bullshit, all it serve it force phase of non gaming! we don't pay a sub for not playing! they really need to stop to limitate the time we can gather or craft it's pain... and instead to make more fluid the market it do kill it. nice jobs.

ps: i use a lot of time stupid and idiot in my message because it's my feeling, everything in the craft/gathering are timed, meaning any new player reaching 60 now, can't catch back in anyway.... because they can't go over the timed part. they are screw from the start, it's nice to think that it must be hard to get some stuff, i will have prefer that it was hard to craft, than gather the stuff for craft. sadly it's not how SE think and we did end with one of the worst craft/gather token system ever, when the craft and the gathering have a potential to become the best. they simply don't understand how it work and do massive error since the start of HW

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Originally Posted by Katchoo

Certainly everybody has different expectations of an MMO. Personally i would like the content that i pay a monthly fee for to entertain me enough that i don't need other entertainment like Netflix to make it bearable (which i also have to pay monthly fee for), but thats just me and my opinion.

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others games realized that eons ago , and gathering/crafting is go there click and get it , isnt fun nor engaging but gets the job done..... minigames are fun the 1 week after that is so frustrating.... Fishing is relaxing since u dont need to use a rotation nor rely on rng until u are overgeared , just some skills to spice it.

i understand that some ppl enjoy it.... but the ppl that craft/gather in the end use macros or fixed rotations.... and there goes the "minigame" out of the window....if not even devoted DOH/DOL "play it" ,there is something wrong.

crafting/gathering gearing is ugh...

if something needs a revamp for 4.0 is the whole DOH/DOL , SE doesnt know what to do , if they "enforce" it , ppl will be mad , if they make it useless ppl will be mad...

others games doesnt have this issues since ppl dont mind leveling crafting while leveling jobs , and once u are at max u dont need to do anything other than gather or buy mats and create items with 1 click....in FFXIV once u hit max lvl is where the "fun" starts for DOL/DOH.... and by fun i mean boring grind wasting time gil and the joy u can have playing this game....but thats just me i despise the whole system , and 3.0 only made it worse.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

It's a line between the two. Gathering can only be so interesting, and if an aspect of a game manages to be boring to the point that I can't make it enjoyable (be it with ingame content or outside content like netflix), it's a bigger problem beyond the scope of that. Fishing can be relaxing for me when I can just do it without too much of a care (compared to other aspects of the game, it's something I can do without too much commitment without detriment to the others).

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The Fishing thing did get me thinking and may be i'm being a little hasty with the Nextflix thing. Lemme elaborate / change my stance then.

If your replacing one form of entertainment with another because the the original content is too tedious then there is definitely something wrong with the content. And while certainly content gets repetitive over time isn't that why we pay the monthly fee? To get incremental updates to keep things fresh?

If your enhancing your enjoyment of content with entertainment from another source, fishing as an example, then that seems perfectly reasonable to me.

May be i'm being a little contradicting here but I'm just throwing the idea out for debate.