Reduce cost of Soul of the Crafter

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

All the armchair game design experts in the forums are a joke.

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I suppose the fact that they pay a subscription doesn't mean anything? Who keeps the lights on for SE? Players do, that's who. Without our money, there wouldn't be a FFXIV.

With that in mind:
1. 2.X crafting - anyone could craft anything, people played and generally were happy. If they weren't, they simply didn't craft.
2. 3.X crafting - some people enjoy crafting more due to specialization, some people enjoy it less, even to the point of considering quitting (I no longer have a recurring sub and may not renew once my days run out). I have yet to hear of anyone pick up crafting after 3.X if they were around for any significant time during 2.X.
3. How many people have been attracted to start playing FFXIV post 3.0 specifically because of crafting specialization? Quite likely, zero (or at the very least, far less than the number of people that became disinterested post 3.0).

What does the above mean in simple terms? Specialization as it exists now can be viewed as a sub killer. New restrictions are not new content, or at least not in the sense that it can attract new players while keeping old players on board.

Wow overkill comment 'sub killer'

If you don't like it then don't play. The amount of people who like or at least are indifferent to specialist vastly outweigh the 'we hate it' camp. If all you who detest it actually just quit rather than bleating on about it then I'm sure SE wouldnt care about the $200 of sub losses. That's how small your collective is

Can you tell me how it otherwise isn't a sub killer? It might not be massive given how relatively small of a group we're talking about (crafting itself being a small subset of the general population to begin with), but unless you can prove #3 wrong, how can this be viewed as anything else?

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

... but unless you can prove #3 wrong, how can this be viewed as anything else?

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Tbh, there's nothing to prove since your propositions are not proven. They're just guesses, actually. For instance, when you say that "some people enjoy crafting more due to specialization, some people enjoy it less, even to the point of considering quitting", I'd argue that's not the reason most crafter were dissatisfied or considered quitting the game. The real problem before 3.2 was that...there was really no point in crafting. There was nothing significant to be made, it took ages to gather mats, crafted gear for DoW/M was useless and as a result the economy was stagnant. Specialist recipes are really a non-issue, especially if this constraint is removed after a few months.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

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2.x had an increasing large barrier to surpass to be able to craft anything, that by itself drove several people away from crafting

3.0 had a much smaller barrier, but unless red scrip gear/mats become more easily attainable in the next few months, the barrier will be just as bad or worse than 2.x come the end of 3.x

Crafting has always been a much better tool for retention than recruiting, so it's a poor comparison. One could argue that crafting has kept more people subbed than Gold Saucer, so Gold Saucer is the real sub-killer

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

Can you tell me how it otherwise isn't a sub killer?

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Because it's all conjecture.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

3.0 had a much smaller barrier, but unless red scrip gear/mats become more easily attainable in the next few months, the barrier will be just as bad or worse than 2.x come the end of 3.x

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3.x has a much higher barrier to entry to get into what is considered "end game" crafting than 2.x, and it's not even close. Not even including specialist recipes. The fact that you need Favor mats from gatherers to buy stuff to craft makes it way less accessible than even when the Ehcatl Sealants were needed in 2.x. Or you spend 10+ weeks to gear out one crafter using only red scrips, and still not reach the 3 star requirements without using food that leaves you with little to no CP.

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Originally Posted by Mindy_Macready

3.x has a much higher barrier to entry to get into what is considered "end game" crafting than 2.x, and it's not even close. Not even including specialist recipes. The fact that you need Favor mats from gatherers to buy stuff to craft makes it way less accessible than even when the Ehcatl Sealants were needed in 2.x. Or you spend 10+ weeks to gear out one crafter using only red scrips, and still not reach the 3 star requirements without using food that leaves you with little to no CP.

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3.2 still isn't as bad as the end of 2.x, and 3.0 had a pretty small barrier to hit 2-star. You don't need a full set of red scrip gear to attempt 3 stars, and you don't need 470 CP to HQ them.

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Originally Posted by -BlueGreen-

3. How many people have been attracted to start playing FFXIV post 3.0 specifically because of crafting specialization? Quite likely, zero (or at the very least, far less than the number of people that became disinterested post 3.0).

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I left the game about a year and a half ago because pre-specialization endgame crafting degenerated into compulsive marketboard undercutting.

In a world where everyone is allowed to craft everything and every HQ Sky Pirate's Helm of Fending is exactly the same as every other, it only takes a few ambitious omnicrafters to elbow everyone else out of the market for high-end items. I found that I could list a bunch of items, adjust the prices once a day, and maybe sell one or two by the end of the week, or I could camp out in the front of the marketboard, undercut other crafters for hours on end, and sell a sizable numbers of items each day. I spent a couple months doing that because it was the only way to do what I enjoy -- challenging crafting -- on a daily basis, but it was exactly the opposite of all the things a game should be and eventually I just quit.

I returned to the game a few months back in large part because I think the changes to the crafting system -- including, most notably, specialization restrictions -- take it in a positive direction.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

3.2 still isn't as bad as the end of 2.x, and 3.0 had a pretty small barrier to hit 2-star. You don't need a full set of red scrip gear to attempt 3 stars, and you don't need 470 CP to HQ them.

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I disagree. The barrier to entry at the end of 2.x was "craft these tokens and get your tools, do these quests and get sealants." You could farm master demimateria and fieldcraft materia with more crafting; you didn't need a DoL with favors to gear out quickly, or weeks and weeks of red scrip farming to get there. Why do you think people hate the red scrip system so much compared to 2.x? It wasn't fun for a long time, especially when you got less items for the mats at the start of 3.0.

10 weeks isn't even full red scrip gear. It's just enough to get there if you don't have access to favors. And while you don't need 470 CP to HQ them, you're arguing for the sake of arguing if you believe 380 CP isn't a serious handicap.