With notifications of class quests comin, can we have a more noticeable job tutorial?

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Originally Posted by Canadane

There's actually a fair deal of advantage going into some pvp modes as a base class, not a job.

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Really? I know this was true back at level 50, but with the new job abilities in heavensward I have trouble thinking of any class that would have a perk to it. The new abilities are just so good.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I would start with scratching the secondary class requirement for a job, then putting the job quest onto the class trainer so they can be picked up right as you finish your lvl 30 quest.

Should be enough, really. If there's still a large amount of newbies unable to find their way to a job, then you may consider locking MSQ or similar behind it.

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Problem with that though is those secondary jobs are actually kinda important. Black mages need raging strikes, scholars need to have protect and cleric stance, etc.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Problem with that though is those secondary jobs are actually kinda important. Black mages need raging strikes, scholars need to have protect and cleric stance, etc.

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I met a level 60 WAR in a mix of regular / upgraded Ironworks gear who didn't have GLD leveled high enough for Provoke and apparently got to the level cap in that gear set. Those secondary abilities are important, but bad players will find a way regardless.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Really? I know this was true back at level 50, but with the new job abilities in heavensward I have trouble thinking of any class that would have a perk to it. The new abilities are just so good.

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Well, there are still level 50 pvp things where you're synched down. But, since I don't do pvp, I have no idea how abandoned those pvp modes are or not.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Problem with that though is those secondary jobs are actually kinda important. Black mages need raging strikes, scholars need to have protect and cleric stance, etc.

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Well, just because you don't need another class to unlock the job doesn't mean crossclass skills won't be available from that class. But yeah, it'll mean people won't necessarily even notice there is such a thing as crossclass skills. I know it's a pain to figure out and/or remember which classes have the crossclass skills for the class/job I'm levelling if it's one I'm not familiar with already. (On alts, usually, because on my main I already have all the ARR classes unlocked so the skills menu gives me that information readily.)

When I meet people where the lack of crossclass skills is obvious (such as healers without swiftcast), I tend to suggest that they might want to level xxx class in order to get access to skills that will make their job a lot easier. Sometimes, they're all "yeah I knoooow, it's just such a pain to level something I'm not interested in", but many times they didn't even know that was a thing. ^^;
That's one thing I wish SE would make easier as well. For example by having the new job trainer mention that practising with xxx class really helped him become a better [whatever job s/he is]. Or through the game system itself somehow.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Really? I know this was true back at level 50, but with the new job abilities in heavensward I have trouble thinking of any class that would have a perk to it. The new abilities are just so good.

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They're also ignoring the flat damage bonuses they gave to jobs a while ago. There's absolutely not a case in pvp for anyone using a class now.

That being said, right @ 30 and for a bit there's a couple of jobs that actually do benefit from being a class rather than job. And those that don't have that luxury are at least close enough to full potential before 35 that if someone's competent with it I'd be fine with seeing the class in a dungeon @ 35. Granted someone else's post of a mrd35 not using overpower, that's more a problem with them not knowing how to tank, not that they were mrd. A MRD 35 (at least now) doesn't lose much of their damage stat, only vit, and gets access to invigorate, raging strikes, and can really hold their own vs a war35 of equal skill. Hell even @ 50 at one point lancer was only somethin like 3% dps lower than DRG, and CNJ was as good if not better than WHM in a certain garuda ex solo heal strat, relying on dps burst boosts to kill it before needing to hide in the shield.

Players really should be forced to change into a job or be barred from participating in any post-40 content at all, I would say. Especially since there somehow ARE players who are dumb enough to think that a lv60 lancer instead of dragoon is a good idea, as an example. Classes are a worthless relic, and if they don't remove them, at least don't make old players have to put up with the dregs the unwashed masses who don't understand the system.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Problem with that though is those secondary jobs are actually kinda important. Black mages need raging strikes, scholars need to have protect and cleric stance, etc.

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Swiftcast is a lvl 26 spell. Not within the lvl 15 range. Provoke comes at 22. Invigorate at 22, Blood for Blood at 34. DRGs don't get Internal Release on the way et cetera. White mages and Scholars don't need THM at all, surely Swiftcast is not important!

Just to name the typical must haves. The point falls flat because leveling these classes to 15 does not provide you with many if not most of the most important cross class skills.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Swiftcast is a lvl 26 spell. Not within the lvl 15 range. Provoke comes at 22. Invigorate at 22, Blood for Blood at 34. DRGs don't get Internal Release on the way et cetera. White mages and Scholars don't need THM at all, surely Swiftcast is not important!

Just to name the typical must haves. The point falls flat because leveling these classes to 15 does not provide you with many if not most of the most important cross class skills.

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Protect is a little more important than those skills. They are all must haves, but you won't get kicked from most pugs for not having them. No protect on scholar is kickable outside of very early dungeons.

Though I guess they could just make protect and cleric baseline for all healers.