The gap in skill between the great AST and the others is enormous, which really doesnt help. Many times have i come across another AST in df who dont know the basics of healing, let alone the nuances of their class. Been running alex for relic recently (71/80 so doing alexander just for that last push), and been paired up with questionable AST parteners. One didnt use cards at all. One was the diurnal healer (i was nocturnal) and they didnt use regen abilities at all and single target healed via benefic for aoe damage. However, one A4 we were AST x 2 and it was amazing. We both understood what we were doing, stance dancing for dps, dealing with discoid each at the same time, syncronising card buffs. It was beautiful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafreya
AST is a class that has attracted many who havent healed/have very little experience healing before since they want to play the class that looks pretty (dont blame them, AST really is a sight to behold visually). Further increasing this is the fact that when AST was the underpowered mess it was on release, many raider had to make a prompt decision on what class to gear up via Esoterics, and AST lost out, leading way to many of the great healers in game still maining WHM/SCH. Many many factors have played into the lack of understanding of AST. The raider had to choose another healer over AST, so the non-raiders see this and think "AST=bad since very very very few healers raid on it". The new healers on AST dont do it justice at all in DF, further leading to it disrepute in the community. And the imbalance in hard DPS checks in savage alexander 3 and 4 made it hard to take AST in over classic meta WHM+SCH.
Hopefully people will start seeing the better side of all of us who love and play AST to a high standard when Alexander: Midas is released.
Astrologian misconceptions
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01-07-2016, 08:35 AMDarkmoonVael
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01-07-2016, 12:28 PMVladyI just love seeing these self promoting I am so leet threads hidden behind a supposed real message. Yes we know in your last 15 posts you are really good and just everyone else that complains about astro job is sub par. Astrologian still has its issues even though it is on par with the other two healers. Still has some lack luster cooldowns despite its insanely strong healing cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunafreya
Could use another option to maybe even temporarily reduce rng on cards as well. Bole would be immensely more useful if we could time it for an actual defensive need. And nocturnal stance should be revised a bit to give us a more offensive edge with it possibly replacing cleric stance without affecting our healing ability. That way we could in essence perform the role of the scholar with maybe reduced mana costs on our dps oriented spells and a boost in dps potency but not as strong as cleric stance.
Please leave the ego at home as it undermines your entire post. A person does not have to be an elite player to have a valid opinion or critique of a job. -
01-07-2016, 02:31 PMRyan2714
i am still doing ok with my 208ilv ast, but still some little thing i hate about ast
1st : i hate when i have another ast in my team, cant do the double regen effect like whm medica II, the card buff remove each other ( some time i cast arrow+ on a char and then the other ast cast another one on that char too or use an aoe card ),will be chaos unless you have a team voice chat or a smart partner know what you and he/she are doing.
2nd: whm and sch have a perfect skill set that almost every spells is useful even in pvp or nonpvp, while ast have stella that very rarely use in nonpvp; lightspeed is an amazing life-saver skill but its cd is too long and without it, ast have zero instant aoe healing spell; CO is a beautiful looking spell but the effect is so meh, only good in pvp or to help get a little bit more mp regen from LE, rarely you can use the full potencial of this spell; ast have zero instant casttime damage spell (whm have aero I and water for single target, assize for aoe; sch have enegry drain and ruin II for single, miasma II for AOE )
3rd: the "Shuffle", i cant remember how many time i be like draw a ewer->shuffle->another ewer, draw a spear->shuffle->another spear ... so anoying. -
01-07-2016, 04:01 PMErsahi
I have not had any problems with people talking bad about astro, but I am probably done with the job. The balance or bust nature of the cards just is not fun to play when you are drawing trash, and I had a black mage ask me to stop using the arrow because it threw off his fire 2 > transpose timing.
I liked a lot of the small variations about the job, but the zero or hero D6 roll for cards is not entertaining anymore. -
01-07-2016, 04:03 PMTatoRazzinoI'm actually glad that you posted this in this misconception thread, because some of your problems with the job are fixed by looking at things in a different way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan2714
1) First of all, there is usually no benefit from having two players using the same job in any party combination. The reason why Medica II stacks with anything is because, whenever WHMs are paired with another WHM, they have to stack those things because they have no mitigation other than an Eye for an Eye with a very long cooldown or a Virus that only blocks physical damage. If their HoTs couldn't stack, they wouldn't be able to do much. Also, two SCHs can't stack their shields either, which means that this problem is not related to AST. Finally, with two ASTs in the party you should choose the opposing Sect; if the other person is in Diurnal, you go in Nocturnal and vice-versa. This way you can stack shields and regens comfortably.
As for the cards, well player stupidity is hardly something that the devs should take in consideration while designing anything; if the other AST is removing your cards, it means they have 0 awareness, and that's something SE can't fix;
2) WHM and SCH have no instant cast AoE healing spell. Spells are not skills, since they don't cost MP and have cooldowns that are not built in the GCD. Assize has a 90s cooldown, so it's not as if WHM can use it often, and Indomitability costs a stack that SCHs may want to use in a different situation. Lightspeed is a pretty good cooldown, but you can also get instant cast AoE spells by using Swiftcast, a skill you get from Thaumaturge.
CO is beautiful and very powerful, and you can get the full potential of this skill very often if you know how to set up your cards, AoE regen in Diurnal and LA; this is not a problem related to the job skill, it's related to player skill, so SE can't fix that either.
About Fluid Aura: again, it's a skill not a spell, and it has a 30s cooldown. You can't spam it and it also requires you to be close to the target, which in several occasions can not be an option. It does not bypass any accuracy checks, which means it can miss.
Aero is weaker than Combust, and the initial damage it does is not only ridiculously low but it's also a liability: it means that this specific DoT can't bypass accuracy checks. As AST, you have Combust, which is also instant cast, it's stronger than Aero and bypasses accuracy checks - meaning it can't miss. And also: you can cross-class Aero, if that 50 potency initial hit is so important to you.
Assize is something unique to WHM: it's a skill, not a spell, that deals damage and heals at the same time, while recovering 10% of the caster's MP. You can use it in a variety of situations, and doing AoE damage is only one of them. It also has a long cooldown and it doesn't bypasses the accuracy check, so it's not a reliable tool for damage in high end content.
Energy Drain is a skill that consumes Aetherflow stacks, which the SCH may want to save for later, so it's not a skill that can be spammed with no consequences. Also, it doesn't bypass accuracy checks so it can be a complete waste of a stack.
Ruin II is incredibly weak and not worth the GCD most of the time. It also doesn't bypass accuracy checks.
Miasma II is also week and it's a GCD waste unless you have three or more enemies to hit. It's also a DoT, so it can't be spammed, and it doesn't bypass accuracy checks.
Finally, having instant cast damage spells with low potency is hardly a big asset. All spells trigger your GCD, so I have no idea why you believe that it's such a good option to point Aero as an asset for WHM if you can use that GCD to use Stone III, which is a bit stronger. The skills you mentioned are good, but they're either tied to other things or can be situational, so they're hardly something that flips the DPS numbers that much or something that adds that much utility in terms of DPS.
3) About Shuffle, yeah it's annoying, and I heard SE intends to fix it. Just be patient. -
01-07-2016, 04:05 PMCallamarGaramonde
Its so true though.... I was denied several static opportunities because i had the gall to say that I'd rather play Astrologeon (although i have whm equally geared). However I have solo healed Thordan ex with astrologeon soooo they cant be all that bad? right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLc1o8XpOX4 (take note that the other healer will wipe at first cleave if you do watch it )
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01-07-2016, 04:20 PMLorielleFelt like I needed to step in here..Just because someone can Solo Heal something doesn't necessarily mean the job is OK. This comes down to play skill than it does the job itself let alone how well your team performs and help you, and how well you know the mechanics. However, AST IS in a better position, but it's still just the job to go to AFTER you know what's coming than it is AS you're going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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01-07-2016, 04:42 PMRai_TakaraThat was a nice video. I can't believe I never thought about using Collective like that during the PLD phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by CallamarGaramonde
I've been wanting to solo heal Thordan for a while now. Just need to find the people to let me practice. -
01-07-2016, 07:47 PMRoxas_AndradeWell, saying the skill is an ability and not a spell doesn't change the fact that AST doesn't have acces to anything like it. We still could have some of them...Quote:
Originally Posted by TatoRazzino
If SCH is supposed to use stacks for something else than indomitabiity and energy drain, there's not a lot of options left... SCH should use their resources according to the situation.
What I mean is: AST has a great toolset, so much that I miss buffing someone when I'm a WHM... But it still feels that we lack something...
To tell the truth, it's kinda boring using just two Dots and spam malefic II. We could use more attack skills sometimes. If stella was instant or off GCD, we could make a lot more out of it. People say it could unbalance PVP, but heavy is halved everytime you cast it, so I don't think it would be a problem.
I agree with the things people say about shuffle, and I would love to see it not drawing the same card again, after all, the reason I use it is to not have that card at that moment...
As for CO, it relly lets me down sometimes... We have a long CD for something that would only help with one tick of LA, Asp.Helios or CU - two if you're lucky to time it right with the server ticking. The stun thing is also something that you can only use once during a pull and usually you don't get it to full potential because you don't have all that hots and spread cards on everyone by the time you use it for the stun. I would suggest that CO was still insta-cast, but on GCD. Sounds like too powerful, but think of it: stun wouldn't last forever - Holy's doesn't so CO's shouldn't either. Extending buffs indefinitely wouldn't also be a thing, since the skill would now spend mp that you could be using for something else and refreshing 5sec of a buff on a 3sec CD wouldn't be that great anyway...
And we can always hope for some better, different skills in the next expansion... -
01-07-2016, 07:48 PMZaj_Quilos
The job is fine. Nocturnal Sect needs to be tweaked a bit and Shuffle needs to be improved but that's it.