I didn't think Ysayle's Heel Turn was out of nowhere. When she managed to get horde into Ishgard she had a sharp dose of reality when they attacked innocents rather than doing what she thought they would, which is go after the leadership. Ysayle's idealism lead to her being deluded into the reality of what the horde was. That's the big turning point for her in her story. When we meet her she is still stand offish but the ground her conviction was built on has already been eroded. The journey she takes with us only washes away that ground further until finally she is able to be honest with herself.
Moenbryda fit narratively fine. The primary issue the character had was that we as players had little time to get to know her so she did feel a bit rushed as a character. Given her backstory and the reason for inclusion in the narrative her traits, skills and personality made plenty of sense. Of course the Archons loved her. She was a friend they hadn't seen in a long time.
Minfilia I think has suffered due to her role. Being a good manager isn't glamorous. I think she has played her role in the Scions well and as I have said in the past anyone who underestimates the value of a good manager has never had to deal with lousy managers before. I think she is popular with the Faction leadership because the Scions proactively take a role in helping the city states in a time where the city states will take any help they can get. The problem with her is she is never in a role where we as players can really learn to appreciate her as a character. The closest is in 2.2 when she comes with us to learn about the echo. It was her observations that gave us the first clue on how the kill Ascians. Sadly she ended behind the desk again just pushing papers. This is one of the reasons I think Minfilia still has solid potential. We just have never seen her proactive in a role which wasn't dull.
-
10-07-2015, 06:42 AMBelhi
-
10-07-2015, 07:23 AMElladie
There seems to be several issues here. The one about the WoL I'll come to shortly. The other main one seems to be the use of characters - like Moenbryda in particular - as plot devices and whether that means they're badly written and/or two-dimensional. I do agree that Moenbryda and Gra'ha in particular are mostly plot devices, but I disagree that this is necessarily bad writing. I was intrigued by Gra'ha and his backstory and wanted to know more; it was frustrating that they decided to get rid of him the way they did. He was an interesting character AND a plot device so the two things aren't mutually exclusive. But, yeah, his 'demise' was annoying; I'd categorise that as lazy writing rather than downright bad. I thought the whole of Moenbryda's story arc was very well done. She was believable from the start; her interactions with Urianger were hilarious and served to make him much more believable and sympathetic; and her sacrifice was both believable - she was a hothead - and sad. But she was still a plot device.
As for the WoL, I can see why some people get frustrated about his/her ... Let's call it plasticity. I'm a writer myself so I don't have an issue because I'm constantly working on her characterisation in my head. I don't RP as such but I have very definite ideas about who she is, what she thinks, and what she cares about. Sometimes that evolves; sometimes it radically changes (I recently switched to Au'Ra and had to retcon everything!). But I don't have a problem with that or with coming up with rationalisations for her 'decisions'. In my mind, I talked to Ysayle about the mistakes she made; it didn't change the outcome - of course not - but that's the kind of thing that helps me feel as though Elladie isn't just an empty puppet.
Edit: I just wanted to add, not saying that I think the story is perfect and doesn't need some rewrites here and there. I was very very cross when Nanamo turned out not to be dead after all; IMO that was a cheap device on SE's part. Make me all emotional for the big climax and then go back on it? Not good! And I'll be furious if they bring Hauchefant back. I adore Hauchefant; I tore through the Vault being terrified for Aymeric, and Hauchefant's death completely shocked me; in fact I screamed 'no, NO, NOOOOOO' so loudly at my PC my daughter came downstairs to make sure I was okay. If they bring him back with some 'deus ex machina' nonsense, it will tarnish and cheapen the whole story -
10-07-2015, 07:50 AMFrederick22
Nanamo's return was kind of expected, I sayid it already and I will say again. There were lots of hiddent tips and unconcluded things we saw there, that keep a lot of people thinking that something wasnt right ( an example is cleatly that Teledji wasnt with the montecarists, he was acting alone. We know how lorolito is, he is the guy that always think twice before doing a move and he always consider the consequences of those acts. what he will win with nanamo's dead? a civil war would be good for him? Why making that lies about the sultana and her ilness? what will happen to him when everyone knows that the wol is being accused of treason by a group of merchants with a terrible reputation, what about the alliance, what about the garleans, etc, etc )
I do well agreed with Hauchefant's dead. He dies and SE totally showed us that he is dead for good. If he returns somehow, Im gonna be really angry.
Ysayle is dead is a 50-50 there are reasons for both, keeping her dead or resurect her. On my opinion I would like more about her and ohh common did nobody see the crush she has for Estenien? LOL -
10-07-2015, 10:08 AMMorningstar1337I'd see it as more of a 50/50chance, but for a different reason, and one that is closer to Bahamut then Ysayle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
Ysayle created a primal in the same manner of Apothesosis Louisoux did, but unlike Phoenix, Shiva had worshipers, Tempered worshipers I assume, who likely do not know of her fate. They are two distinct creatures, It isn't a question of "if Shiva will be back", but "when", and the awnswer will probably be either when Omega pops up and absorbs all the primals (and show that it's more powerful than Ultima, which only absorbed 3), they introduce a new tier of difficulity for the Primals, neither will be likely to happen during Heavensward. Though I supposed the same could be said of Thordan and his Knights. -
10-07-2015, 10:54 AMAyuhra
The Warrior of Light is a power fantasy player character if ever there was one. I see MINE as a character because, even if I do not RP, I made a whole personality and backstory for him. My imagination just abhors a vacuum.
It's too bad because I think the game would be more immersive if we could run into someone who genuinely hates the WoL. Right now a character poised to hate us is Lord Francel de Haillenarte (the character you save from being branded a heretic in 2.0.). We saved him but took his best friend away too and he's been finding excuses to not help us so far. Imagine if he shows up again raging at the WoL for the fact of their existence. It would be kind of amazing, wouldn't it?
That's really my problem. Nobody dislikes the WoL in lore. The WoL is incredibly powerful, too. The most immersed I have ever been in the WoL story was 2.55
When the WoL is a wanted criminal and doesn't even have their Light anymore. Sadly this was all undone in Heavensward. The Sultana is alive and we get our Light back.
Warrior of Darkness could be interesting to put pressure on the WoL but I would love, LOVE to just find someone who hates the WoL as a person, not because they're a villain and the WoL is good. -
10-07-2015, 11:16 AMFrederick22First you gotta realise that, Shiva is not like any primal we have seen, may have being the idea of Shiva of Iceheartm but was her havint the control, not the primal itself. Also all the heretics supported Iceheart rather than Shiva.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morningstar1337
Second why you bring omegata to this? Doesnt make any sence.
I think Ilberd is that person :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Ayuhra
-
10-07-2015, 11:35 AMMorningstar1337Because Omega is noticed to be more powerful then Ultima, and I was just bring for a reason why SE might make the older primals relevant again lorewise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
-
10-07-2015, 11:49 AMAyuhraHim too but I feel like he isn't going to come into the spot light for a while yet. I think he will pave the way into the next expansion, which I SUSPECT will be Ala Mhigo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick22
-
10-07-2015, 12:02 PMFrederick22You misundertood me, you said that all the ones that hates us are the villians, the ones that are opossed to wol and everythone else. That you want someone who hate the wol as a personQuote:
Originally Posted by Ayuhra
I responded that person is Ilberd, he is no villian, but he hates us beacuse of jealousy, beacuse of all we have achieve and non he has done -
10-07-2015, 12:35 PMMorningstar1337
You know I wonder if the idea of the WoL becoming a primal would make them more suish or less. On the one hand they basically have an army of worshipers by default, on the other hand a Primal WoL would as large a hatedom then a fandom in this regard because their existence is inherently detrimental to the land