Idea: Split Archer into Bard and Ranger

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Originally Posted by rappa

WM brings more dps. i prefer lose my mobility and earn 30% damage than move like a headless chicken or my ass is on fire.

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It's a matter of how the job is played not DPS. A lot of people are upset that they're favorite job is all of the sudden played completely differently. Many people aren't disappointed by BRDs lack of DPS but are disappointed by how it feels to play the job now. Of course some people love WM, but many people don't and that's why I think it's only logical that a split occurs so people that loved the job before can play in a style similar to their favorite and people that love WM can still play BRD in it's current state.

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Originally Posted by Noelzzz

Ranger will have all archers skills not bards, do you really think that 10 jobs skill can't change how you play a class? About traits, yoshi-p in an interview said that at some point will introduce a skill tree system

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Actually, yes I do. Unless it completely changes your role, you're still doing to be using the same archer skills to dps and it will not deviate far from how bard plays. The two classes will never compete for a dps slot with each other because BRD/MCH are considered the "support-dps" in group comp and are the only two classes who can do such. 10 skills will not change how a class plays, only add onto it. The exception is that if it changes your role entirely in the case of SCH/SMN, if only because they give you abilities that is suited for that role (SCH gets mostly healing abilities to help do their job)

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Originally Posted by rappa

I stopped to read here. I could use "git gud", "learn 2 play", "go to smn op" but i'll try to post something relevant.

WM brings more dps. i prefer lose my mobility and earn 30% damage than move like a headless chicken or my ass is on fire.

Bard now is useful in good hands and a disaster in "smashing button" players. Our cast time is 1'40 and 1'50. It's unusual any aoe i can't cast and avoid after the execution. If i can't cast i will have bloodletter, sidewinder, flaming arrow, any oGCD to buff me or last resort, "feint".

I will rant if "feint" has castime.

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You said you stopped reading, indirectly tell people to get good, tried to post something relevant, and post something completely irrelevant to the discussion (talking bout how good WM is instead of the idea of getting a 2nd branching job for archer)....

This will most likely never happen.

A pure dps ranged dps will never compete for a spot with bard/mch. Having them share gear will just be a pain for the 2 jobs and on top of that unless ranger has incredible TP regeneration to compete with caster aoe dps I don't see it replacing casters either.

The resistance your getting from the community is also another big reason this will never happen. Half the posts in this thread are just simply... no.

So yeah... no.

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Originally Posted by o3o

The resistance your getting from the community is also another big reason this will never happen. Half the posts in this thread are just simply... no.

So yeah... no.

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Using this logic the other half of the responses are 'yes.'

So, uh... yes!

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Originally Posted by Xerius

Using this logic the other half of the responses are 'yes.'

So, uh... yes!

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And people saying "no" are only half of this discussion as well.

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Originally Posted by Xerius

It's a matter of how the job is played not DPS. A lot of people are upset that they're favorite job is all of the sudden played completely differently. Many people aren't disappointed by BRDs lack of DPS but are disappointed by how it feels to play the job now. Of course some people love WM, but many people don't and that's why I think it's only logical that a split occurs so people that loved the job before can play in a style similar to their favorite and people that love WM can still play BRD in it's current state.

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Even if you were to take away WM from bard, they need something else to fill in the damage discrepancy. WM increases their overall dps as much as every otehr job getting increased dps from their new abilities. That is, their relative dps compared to other classes has not increased by using WM; their overall dps is balanced around using WM.

If you fit in ranger as a role that does exactly what WM does and foregoing regen songs, it's not competing with bard for a DPS slot, but rather the spell casters which comes with it's own problems; TP is not sustainable like MP and you have the spell damage aspect. The current party compositon setup between DPS is that you want two melee, 1 "support dps" and one caster. "Support dps" would be BRD or MCH because of their regen abilties which comes with naturally less damage output compared to those of a caster.

And now even if we were to go with this, it doesn't change the fact who (BRD or RNG) gets WM. WM the way it is, does not work well with archer's skills. The traits don't work properly with proc rates, and the animations on the archer skills. It's not so much as fixing the problem rather than moving it somewhere else.

If they made Ranger, they would be a different job and hopefully get Crossbows or something. Their baseclass could be Hunter (crossbows are different than bows in most FF games). I would want them to be a pet DPS ranged class like BRD+SMN mixed and they could have a Tank/Melee/Ranged pet. Basically a physical version of SMN. Their pets could be a Lion/Bear/Coeurl.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

If they made Ranger, they would be a different job and hopefully get Crossbows or something. Their baseclass could be Hunter (crossbows are different than bows in most FF games). I would want them to be a pet DPS ranged class like BRD+SMN mixed and they could have a Tank/Melee/Ranged pet. Basically a physical version of SMN. Their pets could be a Lion/Bear/Coeurl.

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beastmaster , dual axes or riot

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

And people saying "no" are only half of this discussion as well

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See: Quote I was responding to. I was responding to how their logic was flawed and using their same logic I could come to the exact opposite conclusion.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

And now even if we were to go with this, it doesn't change the fact who (BRD or RNG) gets WM. WM the way it is, does not work well with archer's skills. The traits don't work properly with proc rates, and the animations on the archer skills. It's not so much as fixing the problem rather than moving it somewhere else.

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See: Entire thread. I never said move WM to Ranger. I said keep BRD as it is. Add Ranger as a more mobile DPS focused job. This way the people that love BRD as is can keep it and the people that liked old-style BRD can get Ranger and keep that play style.

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Originally Posted by Xerius

I never said move WM to Ranger. I said keep BRD as it is. Add Ranger as a more mobile DPS focused job. This way the people that love BRD as is can keep it and the people that liked old-style BRD can get Ranger and keep that play style.

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Again, you're trying to sweep a problem under the rug by introducing something else. Why anyone would even want to waste resources on that boggles the mind.

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Originally Posted by Xerius

See: Quote I was responding to. I was responding to how their logic was flawed and using their same logic I could come to the exact opposite conclusion.



See: Entire thread. I never said move WM to Ranger. I said keep BRD as it is. Add Ranger as a more mobile DPS focused job. This way the people that love BRD as is can keep it and the people that liked old-style BRD can get Ranger and keep that play style.

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Then ranger has no place in the current group composition unless you want them to compete with caster dps, and you've done nothing to solve the original problem that still exists on bard. If people want to stay as old bard, they can just keep WM off and still pull ok dps.

Whats your take in what's actually wrong with bard? Because I think we're on two different contexts