Tank Balance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ercapote

so meanwhile every other class has useful abilities that are constanly used for greater beneficial purposes, pally sit here with 4 or 5 abilities that take dust there in the hotbar for that moment "every once in a while when the planets align" not only that, but also our supper defense kit, also puts in trash other 3 or 4 abilities if the boss uses magic damage. hell we should call pally " The situational tank class" only use when that moment on that dungeon.

---

Probably why it's considered the easiest class to play

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Probably why it's considered the easiest class to play

---

is the easiest because it almost requires no skills compare to the other tanks or any other class in the game, while WAR has staking/stance system and I really fun dps/self-sustain/raid-aid/defense kit and DRK also has a really MP manipulation/dps/raid-aid/ and defense kit just a good as paladin, paladin has a........ a good.... paladins have CD :) yyeeyy most of which are useless on magical fights

I know OP said something about not getting into how over powered war is but feel like it needs to be said.

One of the big reasons war can put out alot more damage than the others is because wars Storms Eye gives a slashing resistance down debuf to mobs.

This can up dps alot also they can give more debuffs than the other tanks and aren't dropped for a new one like how PLD can't have both the Goring blade and rage debuff on the same mob at once.

And still parry is unless in large amounts or if at all useful. If parry would just improve mitigation we would go for full vit right side.

Oh wait we can't thou because SE thought it was a good idea to make VIT the most important tank stat when we still need a decent amount of str to keep hate on the mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dererk

This can up dps alot also they can give more debuffs than the other tanks and aren't dropped for a new one like how PLD can't have both the Goring blade and rage debuff on the same mob at once.

---

Just got to leap in to correct here:

Goring Blade and Rage of Halone debuffs can both be on the mob with no problem. In fact the standard "hybrid rotation" which optimises dps/debuffs/threat is Goring -> Rage -> Royal and has basically 100% uptime on both. The only reason paladins drop the rage of halone debuff is because rage of halone itself does less damage than Royal Authority.

Also, Storms Eye is not something to consider when comparing tank damage. Ninjas can provide it too, and often a Warrior is present as an offtank when a DRK/PLD is main tanking. In virtually all cases that matter when tank DPS is being compared, tests are done with the Slashing Debuff applied. Even accounting for this Warriors are way ahead of the other two.

My personal suggestion, only having WAR @ 60 but having played PLD in all of 2.0 and sparsely from 2.1-2.55, was to give everyone Eye since that seems to be the biggest upset when it comes to tank mixing and matching. Lose a WAR, lose a huge chunk of DPS (not just WAR's personal DPS).

Also for a WAR to keep both debuffs up they have to drop their highest DPS/aggro generation combo. So RoH = Path, with the added benefit of generating aggro.

Anyway, this thread has provoked a lot of great discussion so far and since I'm not too well versed on the ins and outs of what needs to be changed, I'm going to continue to stay relatively silent. I do like that people want to make PLD more utility/healing-centric though, I always thought that was the direction PLD should go in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

My personal...

---

as a 2.0 PLD I always though that was our goal too, and so it will justify our dps difference and making us unique to war so war will be the DPS-TANK and PLD will be the HEALING-TANK but we only got a mix a shit situational wanna be something but fail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ercapote

please feel free to list how great those abilities are on alexander or any other content in the game whatsoever

---

Tempered Will - Useful on anything with a knockback. You can try to say that's onle been Xande in Syrcus Tower, the last boss of Dusk Vigil and the last boss of Neverreap, but that does have its uses.

Cover- A situational skill. You're not supposed to use it all the time nor should there always be a situation in which to use it. Useful if you healer pulls aggro when a new pack of mobs spawns and you somehow weren't able to get them all before they start running around.

Pacification - Useful against trash packs to interrupt most telegraph attacks. You can apply it on a mob casting an ability and as long as its up by the time the cast end the attack won't go off. This would be broken as hell if it worked on bosses.

Blind - Again, useful against packs of enemies. Would be broken as hell if it worked on bosses.

Shield Bash - Still one of the longer stuns in the game. 6 seconds is pretty good.

Clemency - This is an off-tanking tool. And even then, only to be used in emergencies. It's not something you are obliged to use while main tanking since you have other things to worry about.

Tempered will - an ability that changes nothing either if you use it or don't, serve no purpose but apply laziness on your tank just so you just don't move a mechanic that is not lethal and has ways to avoid mostly easy 100% of time - don't need it

cover - ability only helpful when you you suck at your job because if someone is getting hit on a mob you should look at your aggro game cuz its weak, (last time I use it was 4 month ago on t13) I still haven't found a single ability on any other class that sit for so long with no purpose at all beside the help it provides are barely helpful since it only cover physical attacks and have the risk to kill you if healers aren't paying attention.

pacification - if it's broken then why put it on the first place? rarely see this ability doing something again just move to feet two the left and can be easily avoided with least amount of effort - don't need it

blind - only makes mobs miss 2, 3 hits, not that big of a help compare to DRK AOE galore or WAR. - no big of a difference either on the healing so not helpful at all

shield bash - is good no one complain about it " I THINK" - kinda useless on bosses and 100% of the situation you don't need the LONGEST STUN since it's only use as an interrupt and the only raid that made use of this LONG STUN was t5, still DRK, WAR stun would work just fine for any other content + is stronger.

clemency - good ability VERY SITUATIONAL, rarely useful with the recast time healers already heal what they need you for and recover the mp, making clemency mostly a lose in dps and mp. so meh.

I know they are situational but on top of that they are barely helpful and only take spots where other abilities more useful could be.

Tempered will is very useful. I can think of a few uses that it's saved my ass right off the bat... Heavensfall in T9, Titan EX, A3 knockbakc when not in the center, Nevereap boss, Taking landmines in T8 without eating 2 others from blow back, Divebombs in T5 when moving the snakes from the pit early, T10 Wild Charge, T13 Divebombs, T9 divebombs, Shiva Avalanche, Levi Ex knock back on boat, Add dps in ifrit ex while preventing knockback, Demon Wall Back in the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante_V

Tempered will is very useful. I can think of a few uses that it's saved my ass right off the bat... Heavensfall in T9, Titan EX, A3 knockbakc when not in the center, Nevereap boss, Taking landmines in T8 without eating 2 others from blow back, Divebombs in T5 when moving the snakes from the pit early, T10 Wild Charge, T13 Divebombs, T9 divebombs, Shiva Avalanche, Levi Ex knock back on boat, Add dps in ifrit ex while preventing knockback, Demon Wall Back in the day.

---

all of those situation, if you play like should made no a single difference if you use it or not. like I said only serve to be lazy not real usefulness to the class or the party just....prevent for giving a few steps back IF YOU PLAY CORRECTLY if it saves your life or your life depens on this ability then "git gud"