#nofunallowed

I agree with your thread, there is no reason a fun game like triple triad should take me five hours of grinding one npc to give me one card. A card i can't even use until I collect 60. It's got me burned out and kind of bummed, i thought it was gonna be really fun.

I agree that they made the side attractions way to much of a grind. It was foolish of them. As far as the last bit about skimpy outfits, my Halonic Priests Alb would like to have a word with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alberel

I'm not sure why everyone is bashing the OP since they're right. A lot of 'for fun' gameplay systems have been added with deliberate timesink gating mechanisms that make them entirely not fun.

Triple Triad, for example is a fun mini-game in its own right but getting new cards is such a chore that most people have simply given up on even bothering. If a gameplay system that is supposed to be fun is so unrewarding that players have largely given up on it then there is something seriously wrong with the design behind that system.

The same goes for chocobo racing and the sightseeing log, as the OP points out. In fact the sightseeing log is a great example because the new sightseeing log in Heavensward areas actually is fun since there are no ridiculous time and weather requirements... you simply have to find the location and work out the correct emote to use. The very fact this changed in the new log suggests SE is aware of how self-defeating the absurd gating on the original log was.

'For fun' content should not be a timesink. It should be something fun to do when you're tired of the countless other timesinks already in the game.

---

I agree with this completely. I've found myself losing interest in FFXIV because every new mini-game has a ridiculous grind attached. Yes, MMOs have grinds but a) not necessarily to this level and b) they are more enjoyable grinds. My definition of a more enjoyable grind would be one where there are less repetitive tasks. For example, grinding each dungeon 5 times feels a lot different than grinding 1 dungeon 100 times.

I also don't enjoy so much time gating. The argument "but people would burn through content" rings hollow when people log on and have nothing they enjoy doing because of all the time gating. For me options are:

- Grind Triple Triad - Most NPCs have the random rule. This is unfair when they "randomly" get 5 of 7 amazing cards and you get 5 of 60+ so-so cards. SE should have at least given those NPCs the Plus rule so you could technically beat them if you pull all low number cards. Also, super low drop rates.

- Choco race - A fun but ultimately repetitive task made obnoxious by the fact that it takes forever to rank up (3-4 matches per rank x 3 min x 40 ranks = 6hrs, 20 min per pedigree).

- PvP - Seal Rock is a good PvP format (my favorite of the 3 Frontline formats) but the GC system needs an overhaul. I think SE should have red team, blue team, yellow team, and link achievements to whatever GC you're in regardless of what color team you're put on. "Lore" should never trump fun gameplay (faster queues, for example).

- Level alt jobs - the most enjoyable grind of the bunch due to the variability of the jobs and leveling methods.

There is no endgame to speak of. Alexander normal takes about 2 hours per week to farm and because of time gating Alexander Savage is reserved for a couple nights a week at most.

This game has incredibly shallow content with undisguised, unfun time sinks. It could be more fun but it just feels like there's some easily foreseeable, easily fixable problem with every piece of content. For example, Triple Triad tournaments. SE still hasn't fixed the cheating issue. One of their previous "fixes" actually made cheating even more profitable (lowering NPC points). Literally all they have to do to fix it is make it so players cannot choose their opponents. As an aside, Jumbo Cactpot needs to be 1/day instead of 1/week. MGP/achievement issues solved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

At the same time, if SE made all of the "fun" stuff too lenient people would burn through it quickly and then still complain that they have nothing to do. This is an unwinnable war from SE's perspective.

---

This is a really overused strawman. People said the same thing when WoW made it easy to level cap, but most were happy to cap or level up alts instead of being upset it was too easy. There's no basis for suggesting more people are satisfied with grindy.

It's better to err on the side of easy so players have something to do at all rather than giving up before they start because it's more grindy than it is fun. When was the last time you heard someone complain that they've given up on trying to complete something because it's just too easy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dyvid

Yea the post is making me confused too. You're mad because at the core, FFXIV is a MMORPG?

---

For the love of all that is holy, can we please let this bored trope die? Just because a game is an MMO does not mean that it needs to be a grind-fest.

Quote:

---

I would have loved platforming puzzles. To clear them, to clear them on high-score time, to do them while constantly doing 360’s with every jump. Not because if I clear them 500 times, I get some glamour.

---

I would love to have some of these. Jumping/platforming puzzles were my favorite things from Guild Wars 2.

I agree with this thread in general. I was extremely excited for "fun" activities in this game like the sight seeing log and Gold Saucer but they are so grindy that it's unrewarding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D-vide

(Side note: the team also needs to stop making skimpy outfits all the time. Seriously, 70% of the glamours is either bathing suits, summer tops, skimpy dresses, amulets or Taffeta stuff)

---

I'm passing on other stuff minus this since others have already given a lot of feedback to you about that. Only a couple have on this and they mention lvling/raiding gear. I'm gonna take the lvl 1 glamour stuff and full on reskins do not aplly(Lady Yukata Bluefly/Pinkfly).
Yukata's, Glacial coat, sailor shirt, spring dress, Company Tabard, Crescent Moon Nightgown, Best Man's Jacket, Bridesmaid's Dress, Dream Tunic, Original Halloween Outfit, Eerie Robe, Snowman Suit, Valentione Dress, Reindeer Suit, Guardian Corps gear, Gamblers set from GS, Reiviera set from GS, Glade set from GS, Oasis set from GS are not skimpy.

Sea Breeze/Coeural and man versions of this gear, Light Steel Galerus, Taffeta Shawl, Thavnaria Bolero, Thavnarian Bustier, First seasonal swimwear, Bunny Set, Starlight Tunic, Coronal Summer Halter for skimpy.

I may have missed some, if so forgive me I don't all the glamour gear so I was going off MB, and what I owned. This leaves 1/3 of them being "Skimpy" and I could argue on a couple of the ones in the skimpy category not really being skimpy. 2/3 of them are not skimpy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amiantos

I may have missed some, if so forgive me I don't all the glamour gear so I was going off MB, and what I owned. This leaves 1/3 of them being "Skimpy" and I could argue on a couple of the ones in the skimpy category not really being skimpy. 2/3 of them are not skimpy.

---

I think what they meant to say was no gear should be skimpy because they don't want other people to have the ability to dress their characters in a way they deem unacceptable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by D-vide

Rabble, rabble

---

I agree with pretty much everything you said. My sub is due to expire this week (I did tell myself I'd stop playing a while ago but the people are so addictive) and the main reason I may not re-sub is because there is very little fun to be had (except PVP, but even then the queues are known to destroy souls).

Someone posted earlier that in 3.1 work will be done to GS which I must admit has sparked my interest once again. I do hope they put it right and that I can find enjoyment out of the game once again. Turning TT into a grind was one of most killer decisions I've known in any Final Fantasy game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seorin

This is a really overused strawman. People said the same thing when WoW made it easy to level cap, but most were happy to cap or level up alts instead of being upset it was too easy. There's no basis for suggesting more people are satisfied with grindy.

It's better to err on the side of easy so players have something to do at all rather than giving up before they start because it's more grindy than it is fun. When was the last time you heard someone complain that they've given up on trying to complete something because it's just too easy?

---

It's a perfectly valid argument. People leave WoW all the time because they feel it's too easy. I've seen gameplay vids of people literally running around 1shotting everything in wow. Vaporizing enemies in 3 seconds each. How is that fun? That's not a game, thats just mashing buttons. A game you have to strategize and make decisions. Could you imagine playing chess and you have 20 queens while your opponent has 20 pawns? Ya, not fun!

If you make things difficult or time consuming, some people will give up out of frustration sure. I would argue those people shouldn't be playing MMO in the first place. If you have no patience, RPG in general probably aren't for you. Let alone a MMO. I would ask you what is better, someone playing alexander for 1 hour a week and getting capped out on rewards? or having challenging content that doesn't need a cap because your not guaranteed to win or get a drop every single time. I would argue the latter is much better and offers a much more fulfilling gameplay experience. If you already know your going to steamroll a floor in alexander before you even step foot inside, your not playing a game anymore your just mashing buttons.

If you think that making the game piss easy isn't making people grow tired of playing, you havent seen the front page of general discussion forum. People are bored to tears already and we barely 2 months in.