Neverreap vs. Fractal Continuum

I have only run Netherreap so far, and I hated everything about it. The first boss nearly gave me a panic attack because I couldn't see anything, and that's one of my fears. Jumping into nothingness scared me because of my intense fear of heights. At one point in the dungeon the whole screen looked like it filled with water, which triggered my fear of drowning. Yeah, I have issues. The last boss took way too long. I had the minimum ilvl to get in, I had to run around too much and couldn't reach the boss most of the time... The whole thing was awful. I never want to go back.

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Originally Posted by Wilhem

I'd say Fractal even more so if I'm there to farm tomestones of Law. Sure there is more trash mobs but they also die quicker than in Neverreap plus most of the bosses are more "noob friendly" in Fractal making this dungeon less prone to wipes plus Fractal is one of my two favorites dungeons of Heavensward with The Vault. The only downside of Fractal is that there is nothing to loot there...

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Noob friendly? I've seen wipes in all 3 bosses in Fractal Continuum.

1st boss? Tank/healer doesn't know how to dodge, getting them killed.
2nd boss? DPS can't put out enough DPS, won't dodge, people gather during the tackles, etc. This one is hell.
3rd boss? Dear god the horror stories I can tell you...seen a group vote abandon because they couldn't get it down under 50%.

Compare that to Neverreap where I've only ever seen a group wipe on the last boss due to being blown into the pit, and you can see why I call BS on that statement.

I like both, not really sure why neverreap is so hated.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Noob friendly? I've seen wipes in all 3 bosses in Fractal Continuum.

1st boss? Tank/healer doesn't know how to dodge, getting them killed.
2nd boss? DPS can't put out enough DPS, won't dodge, people gather during the tackles, etc. This one is hell.
3rd boss? Dear god the horror stories I can tell you...seen a group vote abandon because they couldn't get it down under 50%.

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I can only assume you've run this with some really terrible people. I've experienced a single wipe, ever, in Fractal, and it had to to with a terrible healer who wouldn't esuna bomb debuff, even after being told, and just tried to heal through til he was out of mp. The closest I've seen to a wipe beyond that was when the tank DC'd for about 70% of the second boss, and even without a tank, we still 3 manned it til he came back at about the last 15%. Really, it takes a VERY special kind of player to have that much trouble in fractal.

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Originally Posted by Zophar

I can only assume you've run this with some really terrible people. I've experienced a single wipe, ever, in Fractal, and it had to to with a terrible healer who wouldn't esuna bomb debuff, even after being told, and just tried to heal through til he was out of mp. The closest I've seen to a wipe beyond that was when the tank DC'd for about 70% of the second boss, and even without a tank, we still 3 manned it til he came back at about the last 15%. Really, it takes a VERY special kind of player to have that much trouble in fractal.

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I must be getting the horrible luck of finding them then. And they're always BRDs, DRGs, BLMs, NINs, PLDs, and WHMs...you know, the stereotypical bad player classes (it's pretty sad that it's a stereotype now).

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I must be getting the horrible luck of finding them then. And they're always BRDs, DRGs, BLMs, NINs, PLDs, and WHMs...you know, the stereotypical bad player classes (it's pretty sad that it's a stereotype now).

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Eh, I currently run as a brd, and have had runs with all these jobs. No issues. Even had a run last night that scared me. Was DRK, AST, BRD and MCN. Stuff took a bit to die, but that aside, it still ran as smoothly as the 30 something runs that came before it. I would say maybe it's your data center, but I'm on the same one and I never have issues.

i think i probably like neverreap better with a good pt, but it doesn't really matter to me which one we do - i have had fractal go quickly as well

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I must be getting the horrible luck of finding them then. And they're always BRDs, DRGs, BLMs, NINs, PLDs, and WHMs...you know, the stereotypical bad player classes (it's pretty sad that it's a stereotype now).

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I find it funny you say that since I've never experienced a wipe in Fractal, even on my first go around. It's also kind of sad when you literally have six classes on your "bad player" classes list (that's literally 2/3 of the pre-Heavensward roster). In my opinion, there are no bad player classes there are just bad players, and regardless of the class they play they're going to be "bad." If anything, I haven't seen a good Monk since Heavensward, but I mean it's literally been 10 days (7 for non-early access) since the expansion came out.

Here's the thing, if you played 2.X at all, then Fractal is absolutely NOTHING new to you, therefore you can make cake of the dungeon a lot easier. Neverreap on the other hand is full of new mechanics (barring the 3rd boss which is his own layer of stupidity), and therefore can more easily cause a wipe simply due to lack of player knowledge or inexperience. Additionally, as stated before, Neverreap has a lot of bosses who have invincibility phases, or has a phase where the boss mechanic completely halts player's progression so they can perform what's needed of them. This is the reason why even when we get to a much later patch you won't be able to just walk through this dungeon because the first and second bosses have those moments of complete invulnerability. The evasion stack on the 3rd boss is especially annoying and can continually drag out an already tiring boss fight.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

I find it funny you say that since I've never experienced a wipe in Fractal, even on my first go around. It's also kind of sad when you literally have six classes on your "bad player" classes list (that's literally 2/3 of the pre-Heavensward roster). In my opinion, there are no bad player classes there are just bad players, and regardless of the class they play they're going to be "bad." If anything, I haven't seen a good Monk since Heavensward, but I mean it's literally been 10 days (7 for non-early access) since the expansion came out.

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I mostly say it over the course of the many dungeon runs I've done since 2.2 (I practically live in dungeons). I've consistently seen BRDs who don't use Windbite or Venomous Bite, DRGs who will either not use their jumps or will proceed to get hit by everything in existence (lolDRG lives on), BLMs who consistently just spam Blizzard or will just stay in one position the entire fight and get hit by everything, NINs who don't know the existence of any of their debuffs or their Ninjutsu, PLDs who don't know the existence of cooldowns, and WHMs who spam Medica 2/Cure 2/Holy for everything. And this isn't rarely either, I've seen this happen with each class at least 70% of the time, and again, since 2.2 (which was about the time I started seeing the quality of the players starting to get diluted by the sea of bads). I'm going from what I've seen most of the time...which may be due to my consistent bad luck, even at work I'm known for attracting the troublesome clients.

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Originally Posted by The_Last_Dragoon

Here's the thing, if you played 2.X at all, then Fractal is absolutely NOTHING new to you, therefore you can make cake of the dungeon a lot easier. Neverreap on the other hand is full of new mechanics (barring the 3rd boss which is his own layer of stupidity), and therefore can more easily cause a wipe simply due to lack of player knowledge or inexperience. Additionally, as stated before, Neverreap has a lot of bosses who have invincibility phases, or has a phase where the boss mechanic completely halts player's progression so they can perform what's needed of them. This is the reason why even when we get to a much later patch you won't be able to just walk through this dungeon because the first and second bosses have those moments of complete invulnerability. The evasion stack on the 3rd boss is especially annoying and can continually drag out an already tiring boss fight.

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I know Fractal and can easily do the job in there as MNK, but every time I'm in there, one of the other 3 is incompetent, leading to wipes constantly. And there's nothing more frustrating than spending 40+ minutes on the last boss because DPS is too slow, the healer runs out of MP too fast because they're overhealing or because people are getting hit by things they shouldn't, or because the tank can't actually move OUT of the AoEs or pop a cooldown. I'm still salty about that run too, we didn't clear until there were less than 10 minutes left on the timer. As for Neverreap, I've surprisingly found that even the incompetent players (who make killing the mobs difficult) seem to understand how the bosses work enough to not get us killed...at least until the last boss, at which point all bets are off (as usual for endgame dungeons).

Well, what I can glean from this, is, all the bad players on the Primal data center are being drawn to you, while I get all the decent to good players. And I'm perfectly comfortable with that. Cause, seriously, my DF experiences are not even remotely similar to what you're describing. And I mean, like, at all. Either you are wildly exaggerating (most likely) or I just had unbelievably better luck than you over a span of a full year and a half. I mean, 70%? If you'd said 30%, I might have accepted that, but 70%? Yeah....