Is there some unspoken rule to not use Esuna/Leech?

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Originally Posted by Lillia

There are actually people who don't care about DPS rating though and just want the dungeon clears... I am also actually at fault of being a little more casual and non-caring when I play in a norm dgn that I know will be cleared eventually as opposed to if I am raiding...

This doesn't mean I'll just leave a debuff on if I can esuna it but I def get a bit more "ehhhh" in runs that bore me a little .-.

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This has nothing to do with DPS ratings, it has to do with playing a healer as a healer should be played. If a person cannot be bothered to cleanse and heal even though that is their job, perhaps they need to change jobs then. Though since you brought it up, if you are going to run anything group based and feel "ehhhh", as you put it; would it not be worth it to at least put forth the effort to do a proper rotation and end the whole thing faster?

"Eventually" can be anywhere from 10 minutes to the whole time limit these days. You'd feel more bored in a 45 minute dungeon as opposed to 10.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

That's not really fair. While a healer might choose not to do it, oftentimes they are making multiple choices at once and your paralysis is low priority.

Healer choices often look like:

1. Keep the tank up.
2. Keep the dps who is at 10% life up.
3. Avoid one shot AOE.
4. Get rid of your non-lethal status debuff

You better believe that your debuff is not going to be dispelled until the very end, if at all....

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That's not really fair either. You're assuming everyone is always at low health in content and healers are always under fire from one-shotting AoEs.

I understand if a healer is too busy healing to esuna my paralysis. I get that. But if a healer is standing there under no threat of danger and everyone's HP is high and in no danger of taking spike damage, I should get an Esuna. A tank that uses Berserk should get an esuna for their pacification if there's no other pressing healing matters to attend to.

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Originally Posted by Lillia

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Okay, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not because I'm not sure about where you are progression-wise, but in the endgame, there are some raid bosses that have what is called a "DPS Check". During these DPS checks, you literally need to do as much damage as possible before time runs out or everyone dies. It's not a matter of clearing content quickly for farming, though that is helpful. It's a matter of doing my job as a DPS unhindered so the party doesn't wipe.

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Originally Posted by Rendecrow

You better believe that your debuff is not going to be dispelled until the very end, if at all....

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I get what you've been saying in your posts, and I don't disagree.
But as a healer, I can say that you almost always have plenty of time to take care of debuffs. And as others have been saying, there are plenty of healers who either don't know any better, or don't care to do more than the bare minimum of keeping the tank alive.
This is one of those games where you don't need to be spamming heals nonstop, unless you have a tank who's trying to speedrun without using any defensive cooldowns. You can usually spare a moment to use a 1-sec casttime Esuna/Leeches.

It's because of this that healers who know what tools they have at their disposal, and who don't like standing around doing nothing in between heals, can talk about how much DPS they can do. Some bad healers neglect their primary directive of healing while trying to DPS, but most of the ones who talk about it know how to do both.
So yeah. Healers have time to get around to cleansing debuffs. There's usually not much excuse not to.

Some content it's not a good idea to remove the effect. As another said, Gilgamesh's Battle on the Big Bridge can bypass mechanics.

Other content, it's not possible to remove certain effects. Paralysis inflicted by Thunderstruck is an example, and a punishment for failing a mechanic.


I won't deny, there at times to remove the effects. Slow if possible is the biggest one for all classes, Paralyze should always prioritize casters, Disease on tanks, and certain DoT's like Melusine's Venomous tail have to be removed. Trust your healer to know whcih is best to remove, and which to ignore.

Lastly, some content it takes lower priority over actually healing because of a constant re-application of the debuff. Tam Tara Deepcroft's bosses that apply Poison is an example of this - try to esuna all the poisons, and you're more like to lose the tank or DPS to the damage you weren't healing than you saved yourself healing by remove those constantly-spammed effects.

When I play my SCH, its my "healers choice tree"

Is my HP critical?
Is Tanks HP Critical?
Does tank have any debuffs(or am I paralyzed?)?
Is DPS HP Critical?
Do I have any debuffs?
Does DPS have any debuffs?

Of course, this various in situations where I know the debuffs are more deadly then usual, but in most cases, particularly 4 man content, a dead healer is a wipe, anything else can be fixed.

Big Bridge/Big Keep aren't really good examples of when to not cleanse debuffs here, since Esuna/Leeches does nothing for them.
Big Bridge's confusion is cured by healing the target to full.
Big Keep's mini is cured by having the tethered pair run into each other.

I actually can't think of any fight where a debuff that can be Esuna'd/Leeched shouldn't be cured for any reason.

It really depends on the debuff.

Most poisons aren't worth cleansing, and it's often more MP efficient to just slap a heal on the DPS.
Paralyze is worth removing basically all the time unless it's an exceptionally short duration paralyze.
Silence is a top priority to remove, especially if it's on another healer. If it's on a physical DPS though then whatever lol. Pacification is the same but lol on magical DPS.
Warrior's pacify is such a short duration that it's often not worth removing. If you can perfectly cast the pre-time you'll remove all 5 seconds, sure, but often you're going to be busy casting something else once Berserk ends, and by the time you can actually get around to cleansing it it'll be anywhere
from 4 to 2.5 seconds remaining in duration - and with Esuna having a 1 second cast time, not really worth it.

Most of the debuffs you'd really want to prioritize removing are esuna-immune though which sucks but oh well.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

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I do my rotation as I should on every class, but I don't go the whole nine yards popping potions and foods in a dungeon like bray HM for example just to make it a faster run so I can move on to the next thing if I know I'm going to clear it.

I know the thread is about healers and I believe lazy healers can be an issue, I know there are lazy healers. :( But I was speaking more into the defense of that one poster though cause maybe he is just that guy who doesn't really pay mind or care as hes doing what he is suppose to be doing and figures everyone else is too.

He could just be someone who simply does what he should and doesn't care as long as it's not a 10x wipe with 20 mins on the timer while you're on the last boss that you've been fighting for like... 30 mins. >_>; (The force in the DPS tunnel vision is strong....)

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Okay, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not because I'm not sure about where you are progression-wise, but in the endgame, there are some raid bosses that have what is called a "DPS Check". During these DPS checks, you literally need to do as much damage as possible before time runs out or everyone dies. It's not a matter of clearing content quickly for farming, though that is helpful. It's a matter of doing my job as a DPS unhindered so the party doesn't wipe.

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I've reached final coil and it's not that I completely disagree with you as before echo even existed, dps checks were in place since Turn 1 in first coil and casters do need to be on a move just as much as the next dps which hurts them as it is. I just disagree with the way it was handled about.

I was talking about normal bosses by the way, even in the dragon boss at WoD one dead DPS isn't enough for a full wipe so unless everyone is flat-out ignoring mechs or dps is truly that low it's not normally an issue. Most things in the game are way more casual than Coil stuff so people only need a minimum amount of DPS reached then they are safe. I think Steps is the only real 'difficult' non-raid content atm and I probably wouldn't even call coil that difficult as it becomes a rinse and repeat eventually. .-.

Paralysis on a BLM is absolute death on their DPS. And it should always have priority after healers/tanks. If I have an unavoidable paralysis or even that DPS reducing debuff from gaols, I'll just transpose and sit there until they run out if I'm not getting esuna/leeches. It's not like I'll be damaging anything anyways. Sure there are exceptions but for the most part it's because they are lazy, or don't know their job.

If you're not going to play your job correctly, then why should I?

For most status effects, I'll remove them as soon as I'm able, but there are a few exceptions to this rule.

1. Poison. Some poisons are re-applied almost immediately after being removed. In such instances it's better to remove it after the fight instead of constantly spamming Esuna. These poisons tend to be low-strength so it's rarely a problem.

2. Pacify. If I'm mid-cast, then trying to Esuna Pacify is meaningless. It'll fire after the effect wears off on its own. If things are pretty slow-paced I can usually remove it very quickly since I'll see when Berserk is wearing off. Just don't rely on it.

Those are pretty much the only exceptions. Anyone not removing debuffs in any other situation is just a poor healer.

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

Silence is a top priority to remove, especially if it's on another healer.

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The one thing i'll say here is that there are very few Silence debuffs which last long enough to Esuna. I can think of one example only, and it tends to silence EVERYONE (Wandering Palace HM) so unless the healer has Echo Drops, you're kind of screwed.

Incidentally, I've always kept a small supply of Echo drops on my healer at all times. It's a throwback from my FFXI days when you basically sucked if you didn't at least carry some with you.