(2.x End SPOILERS) That's about seven shades of fouled up...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I don't think that's entirely true. I'm fairly convinced Lolorito set up everything; Teledji really was innocent, but because he has such a love for gloating, Lolorito used that and Raubahn's long-simmering rage to his advantage to get Teledji taken out of the picture. This gets Teledji and Raubahn out of the picture, leaving Lolorito as the (seeming) sole authority figure in Ul'dah.

So he gets everything, and we were all just puppets in his game. Nanamo, Raubahn, Teledji, the Crystal Braves, the Brass Blades, and you... all just devices for him to use to usurp power in Ul'dah.

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I don't think teledji's death was within lolorito's plan, if you think it this way, which way is easier to control a city, by yourself and doing all shady things at the eyes of everyone, or in the shadows while you puppeteer the current ruler.most likely lolorito wanted teledji as the ruler so he could control everything in the shadows without drawing that much attention to him, and if something goes sour teledji would be the 1st to pay.

As for Ilberds power well he says he's been sharpening his "fangs" every since ala mihgo but meanwhile Raubahn got weaker by just playing politics, and yeah that might be true he might have gotten a little bit weaker. Plus emotion inestability in a battle = you are most likely to lose it.

Also for Alphinauds case his sister sent help having a bad feeling about the situation so he got saved by some gaurds from his family. plus with him dead that would make all of Sharlayan angry at uldah too as they are the most influential family there.

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Originally Posted by Waffilicious

I don't think teledji's death was within lolorito's plan, if you think it this way, which way is easier to control a city, by yourself and doing all shady things at the eyes of everyone, or in the shadows while you puppeteer the current ruler.most likely lolorito wanted teledji as the ruler so he could control everything in the shadows without drawing that much attention to him, and if something goes sour teledji would be the 1st to pay.

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The only thing which MIGHT indicate that is his apparent disgust at the handmaiden's declaration that all was set in motion according to his plan.

Otherwise, it really would not make sense, especially if Lolorito is making a play for something much bigger.

As for a civil war in ul'dah would be the worst outcome for the monetarists because it becomes unpredictable, and they lose more money than what they win, even if they won, the place would be in chaos for a while giving them a lot of problem in making money.

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Originally Posted by Waffilicious

As for a civil war in ul'dah would be the worst outcome for the monetarists because it becomes unpredictable, and they lose more money than what they win, even if they won, the place would be in chaos for a while giving them a lot of problem in making money.

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Unless someone else was providing from the outside...

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Originally Posted by Starcade

Unless someone else was providing from the outside...

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That can be very possible, garlean paying off some/most monetarists isn't as far-fetched plan as it seems to be. Considering that it is a mostly merchant city you can strategically buy some monetarists to weaken/corrupt the city thus weakening the alliance making it easier to conquer the continent, although it is more of a long term plan, making it too fast can easily break it down.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

snip for the character-limit gods

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Just so you know you can always write up your post in the editor past it into a word document then post a short-hand version and edit in rest after it's posted because editting posts doesn't have a character limit.

1. The Garleans could do that. It isn't the first time they've done that either (i.e.: take over a city state from the inside). See: Ali Mhigo. I doubt that's actually happening because the last Garlean force within Eorzea was the Gaius's men and they were not receiving any support from Garlemald for 5+ years. It seems for the most part Garlemald gave up on Eorzea for a while.

If they were trying to pay off Monetarists to bring Ul'dah down they'd need to pay off more then one for it to work and neither has been currently shown to be explicitly working with the Garleans (though someone mentioned that 1.0 it was said Lolorito did trade with Garleans. I haven't been able to check if that's true or not so take it with a grain of salt.)

Teledji literally accused Minfilia in that cutscene of using dark magic to control the minds of the Grand Company leaders (and Aymeric) to get her way. Teledji's not completely stupid, just mostly stupid, and he knows if he tried to implicate either GC leader he'd be in a whole world of troubles because he can keep his fellow Ul'dahn's away from the corpse of Nanamo but no way would two GC leaders allow him to just blindly accuse them.

2. There is nothing mentioned in the game to say Martial Law has been enacted over this and furthermore the Brass Blades are a mostly sellsword force meaning there is no way they'd risk dying to the WoL just so they won't die to the Monetarists. Especially over alleged crimes that have not been fully detailed to them.

And applying martial law to the guilds in Ul'dah would only lead to instability and revolt from the people.

4. Alphinaud isn't our only ally. We have two prominent Ishgardian noble houses, Aymeric, and two other Citystates on our side after all (and if you leveled them up to 15 different separate guilds on your side). And we are almost buddy-buddy with Ishgard.

I can see them not wanting to kill us/scions because they wanted to have a public trial to completely defame us to prevent an uproar. The same applies to Raubahn too. Publicly announce he murdered Teledji so the smallfolk don't riot in response to his death.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

(WHy WoL can walk in Uldah/Revenent Toll)
2) they recognise us and chose to look the other way cause the don't believe the charges or they recognise us and chose to look the other way cause they are terrified of actually trying to fight a legend.

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Those are not true tho. If they are so scared of us, they wouldn't chase us so far in the beginning. And I bet we gonna fight lots of them in 3.0 story anyway, so basically, they never scare us, and they will fight us, but they leave us alone when it is not part of the story simply because it is a game!

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Originally Posted by Starcade

I believe that so unavoidable that it's almost certainly the desired result of all of this.

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If the Monetarists / Lolorito wanted a civil war they'd have sparked it. Ul'dah is a powder keg ready to blow; the only reason it hasn't descended into civil war is because information on the incident is being withheld. If they wanted civil war they would have it; but wars are expensive, and as the name Monetarist would suggest one of their main goals is to accumulate wealth.

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Except it's not working in the least, so it's clear they didn't go nearly far enough, and now they are clearly in for a pound here.

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The idea was to have you framed for Nanamo's murder, the Scions detained as accomplices by association, and get Raubahn to kill Teledji, giving Lolorito grounds to imprison him. This would leave Lolorito as the sole authority figure in Ul'dah and, with the Crystal Braves in his pocket, give him free reign to excavate Omega. It was a risky power play, but it worked... with the exception Raubahn freeing you.

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But for whose end? That would seem to play right in to Garlean hands.

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Garlemald has nothing to do with the current dealings in Ul'dah, at least as far as we know.

I think the Monetarists are out for themselves. Omega could be just as easily used against the Garleans as anyone else. If the the Monetarists get Omega they can use it the same way the Garleans used Ultima. Do remember that Omega was a weapon made to take out Bahamut. Hes the strongest primal we have seen in game so far. Titan, Garuda and Ifrit are wimps in comparison. That's an immense amount of power.

There is no sign of war between the city states. Infact from the NPCs in Ul'dah we can see the Monetarists are focused on consolidating their control of Ul'dah but they don't control the Immortal Flames who are still a standing army in Ul'dah. The Monetarists end game is something more subtle than a simple war.

Note that the Monetarists have gone out of their way to appear to stay within the Law. Nothing they have done hasn't been involved in using the law to support their actions. Even Raubahn's arrest is justified under the law as he commited an assassination.

I don't think the Dravanians are working with the Monetarists. They have their own thing going. If there is a connection it is likely linked to Ascian machinations. The Dravanians are just going to be simple badguys in Heavensward. There is more to that story to play out. Do remember the leader of Ishgard is under the influence of Ascians as well.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Those are not true tho. If they are so scared of us, they wouldn't chase us so far in the beginning. And I bet we gonna fight lots of them in 3.0 story anyway, so basically, they never scare us, and they will fight us, but they leave us alone when it is not part of the story simply because it is a game!

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There dialog suggest fear. There is a difference of being the guy who on his own faces the Warrior of Light when he can just pretend he didn't notice us and being the guy who has been directly ordered to go against the WoL and who has a full group of soldiers backing him up.

The Dark Magicks the Teledji was referring to was most likely the Echo. I think it was said that those with the echo were fear and shunned for their powers, which was was Minfilia created the organization to not only learn more about the Echo, but to use it.