Nanamo's age (and Ul'dah's youngest ruler)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wadoka

You CAN kill everyone, with enough determination and resourcefulness - and resources.

---

Actually, even if anyone on Nanamo's side did have the will, I'm not sure they'd have the resources. She may have the Sultansworn and the Flames but the Monetarists also have their own private armies, the Brass Blades are paid by Lololito while the Stone Torches are hired by the Amajina family.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wadoka

All this talk of money as power; and emotional devotion as power, misses the real target. And it doesn't surprise me.

The only, the One True Source of power, is this - the ability to kill, and the will to do so.

The richest man or woman in the world is nothing before the blade of a patriot, an assassin, or a simple quiet man with a plan.

---

Teledji and Lolorito are protected by the law, and run Ul'dah from the base of its foundation. They directly control the lives of its citizens. In that sense, they are the most powerful people there. You could theoretically pay a man a ridiculous amount of money to assassinate someone that strong, but can you pay him enough to offset the amount of money one of them goes into protecting themselves?

And how easily could you set up that kind of ploy anyway? To anyone helping you, how do you ensure they stay loyal, when ratting you out would easily be 1000x more profitable to them and their loved ones? If you ignore that, how would you ever go about doing it alone? Even considering you had the funding and loyal partners, how do you match the loyal and much better funded people guarding him?

And if you succeed, who's to say someone like-minded wouldn't step up, or that more chaos wouldn't come from their removal?

I'm always fascinated by lore, and the question of the Sultana's plan has been bothering me for awhile now. I haven't completed the full story yet, so maybe I just haven't seen all the rationale, but wouldn't trying to reform Ul'dah into a republic just give the monetarists MORE of chance for power than anything else?

Sure, the monetarists are deeply entrenched in the current government, but if the structure is just abolished (chaos aside) and replaced with a republic, their money and influence doesn't just vanish. They're still going to have their factions and all of their connections. Their wealth will still carry a lot of weight and be able to influence the outcome of any sort of elections. They could even become the representatives themselves (and that would be likely I think). There would just be no sultana to try and keep them at bay. Florence was a republic, but the Medici family still essentially ran things.

The current situation of Ul'dah is that is basically owned by the Syndicate. Nanamo is only a figurehead with just a minimal fraction of the influence of the Monetarians. The reason because shes still the sultana, is basically that the monetarians dont care as long as she keeps doing her job as figurehead. If she tries to atack directly the Syndicate CAN and WILL get rid of her, and before anyone can say that Nanamo is the Sultana ect. remember that Monetarians hold the power on every aspect of Ul'dah, so if Nanamo gets judged for example by treason with some forged proof, guess on which side the Jury and Judges will be?

Assasination only works when theres few targets and also when the ones who order the assasination are considerable powerful. Operation Valkyria was lead by VERY powerful people and their target was a single one yet they failed despite all. Imagine having to off ALL the Monetarist being backed by a much lesser power than them and hope that nothing goes awry. Also even in the case of some miraculous sucess, the death of the Monetarist will cripple the entire Ul'dah economy destroying the city from inside out in the process.

The Sultan's lineage has probably been losing power and influence since generations ago, power that has been grabbed bit by bit by the Monetarians. What Nanamo tries to do is that even of the money remains on the Monetarians hands, the power to make decisions goes to the people, that way better jobs can be demanded, better laws to protect the weak, lessen the corruption and in essence give Ul'dah people a better life.

The Monetarist will always hold the reins of the economy but right now they got a hold on every aspect of the uldanians lives, they live and die according to the Syndicate wishes and despite Raubahn good intentions hes only one amongst the many voices of the Syndicate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edellis

Teledji and Lolorito are protected by the law...

...Even considering you had the funding and loyal partners, how do you match the loyal and much better funded people guarding him...?

...And if you succeed, who's to say someone like-minded wouldn't step up, or that more chaos wouldn't come from their removal?

---

All of those things are the statements, and questions, of people who lack the will of which I speak. Such things are not a consideration of the kind of focused, empowered and determined person (lone, singular) who could pull this off.

Ploy? All it takes is one person, in the right place, with the right weapon, and the Powerful bleed out on the street. And where a new power rises, they also bleed out on the street, and so on, and so on, until the message is delivered, or until the so-called "powerful" wall themselves into ineffective seclusion.

Everyone makes mistakes. Wander out without a guard; go out with insufficient guard; expose yourself to a ranged weapon (or spell) at an opportune moment - especially if your travel schedule is more or less a public record...

The nightmare of every protective detail is NOT bands of conspirators, but the lone attacker from out of the blue.

Nanamo has only to say "Will no one rid me of this troublesome merchant?", and it shall be done.

:)

Sorry but thats a straw argument. Obviously everyone dies when killed but what you are saying is equal to a man armed with a knife having a chance against a machinegun nest on a frontal asault. Despite its obvious fantasy themes, the story tries to be realistic so you dont get ubber assasins that sneak upon dozens of guards and kill his target as easily as slicing a bread. Even if by some kind of miracle the assasin manages to get his kill theres now way that Nanamo will escape unharmed since you cant even take a piss in Uldah without the Syndicate knowing it, and they could easily choose to answer blood for blood or just judge her for murder and get rid of her cleanly and theres NOTHING that Nanamo could do against it. Being realistic the instant that Nanamo tries to do something funny the Syndicate will know it FAST, as saw in some scenes where it was obvious that they are under constant vigilance

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Sorry but thats a straw argument.

---

Nope. Please refresh your memory on what constitutes a "Straw Man".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhearil

Nanamo tries to do something funny the Syndicate will know it FAST, as saw in some scenes where it was obvious that they are under constant vigilance

---

So?

You're thinking too small, too limited, not aggressive enough, not determined enough. Surprise, will, determination, ability and NO HESITATION - this is all it takes.

Poisoned needle in the tip of an umbrella. 6-ilm blow dart loaded with toad toxin. Brush pass. Knife in the kidneys. And away. And on to the next target, and the next, reaping the whirlwind.

The only thing that stops these kinds of events from happening on more or less a daily basis, is our mental conditioning / raising / rearing.

I have acquaintances who are conspiracy-theorist nutjobs. The kind of people who think the world is run by a secret cabal of bankers. They rant and rave and complain and complain about it, but not a one of them is brave enough in their convictions and beliefs, to DO anything about it.

"If you really believe So-and-so is on the Trilateral Commission, get on a plane, go over there, and kill him in the street."

So-and-so is still alive, and my friend just keeps ranting and raving. No faith. No guts. No conviction.


Same situation here. Lack of will, lack of belief, lack of conviction, lack of courage.

I don't think the monetarists are that unified. I remember a comment during the MS which seemed to indicate Teledji wanted to distract Lolorito.

As much of a jerk as he may be, Lolorito may actually have a degree of loyalty simply because the current system works for him. I suspect that Teledji is making a play for power with no interest in sharing it. He's been doing a lot to set himself up as the champion of the refugees. Also remember that two members of the Syndicate, Godbert and Rhabahn, are both unlikely to support such a power play.

I have a feeling he will somewhat succeed in 2.55 in whatever plan he has.

Monetarist in fact are considerably divided but when their common ground which is their current power and benefits are threatened, they will close files and crush the oposition behaving quite similar to the artisan guilds from the Middle Ages (artisan non guild members ended with broken limbs if lucky if they tried to work outside of the guild).

Some part of the Syndicate are fond of the status quo, some are neutral (Godbert probably), others wanna to get rid of Nanamo and Teledji is probably the most radical amongst that faction. To put in mafia like terms one thing is to extort the city, another is bleeding it to death, Teledji is willing to literally destroy Ul'dah plus the city states balance for his own benefit. His actions have probably created a BIG interal turmoil on their ranks. Lolorito seems to have the most symphatizers though

Also theres a reason of why Raubahn, a guy with a balls of steel reputation does not dare to atack them directly and feels quite vexed for the situation