Relic Weapons: Going Forward

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Not sure that this realistic. We don't know when we will unlock the DRK job, or any other of the new ones for that matter. If they unlock at 60, I cannot see it being required to complete the 50 relic before moving onto the 60 relic for a job we just unlocked at 60.

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they have already stated dark knight will be available to play asoon as u log in to heavensward so i assume the other classes will be the same 3

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

they have already stated dark knight will be available to play asoon as u log in to heavensward so i assume the other classes will be the same 3

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I thought they said it was soon after. Which could be a number of story quests into the expansion. In any case, I do not see them requiring any of the jobs that were are getting in the expansion to have to go back and do 2.0 content.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

making it so that all players start out fresh on a new relic quest on even footing seems to be the fairest way to do things.

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I don't see how that's fair at all, really. It completely invalidates the time we've spent on the relics. It should be used to help start you out, just like having the previous raid's gear helps you progress into the new one faster than those that come later and are buying theirs with tomes. Gear doesn't become obsolete in one fell swoop.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Also, as I understand it, the zodiac weapon is supposed to be the fully upgraded version of the relic weapon. It isn't a new weapon. Just one that is completed the total upgrade process.

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They turned your relic weapon into materia and infused the Zodiac weapon with it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't see how that's fair at all, really. It completely invalidates the time we've spent on the relics. It should be used to help start you out, just like having the previous raid's gear helps you progress into the new one faster than those that come later and are buying theirs with tomes. Gear doesn't become obsolete in one fell swoop.

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A) Old gear always gets invalidated by the newer gear. This is how things work. Just like in your example, the old raid gear gets replaced by the new raid gear.
B) This isn't one fell swoop also. This is an additional 10 levels, plus who knows what trail/tome/crafted/raid gear later.

It is fair as it allows all players to start off on the same footing. Whereas not making a brand new relic forces them to either create some type of catch up quest or forces them to nerf the entire previous relic to the ground so that players whom didn't complete the 2.0 relic, for whatever reason, can catch up.

To be fair, the relic chain has already been nerfed multiple times over the past year. I did my Yoichi Bow (2nd Zodiac) in 8 days from base relic to zodiac and this was before 2.5 rolled in with doubled light gain, increased soldiary tomes/allied seals, reduced Animus FATE respawns, increased Alexandrite droprates from FATES, etc. Going forward with my 3rd weapon, I'll probably finish it in under a week.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

I thought they said it was soon after. Which could be a number of story quests into the expansion. In any case, I do not see them requiring any of the jobs that were are getting in the expansion to have to go back and do 2.0 content.

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I saw the london fanfest that made people think it will be right out the gate. I dont believe it will be without any prerequisite. I'm sure there will be some sort of quest chain you need to complete that will be in the heavensward areas that can only be accessed after getting to level 50 and completing the story to the end of 2.0. I could be wrong but I don't think so. at the VERY least, it will be like the ROG where you needed to be level 10.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

A) Old gear always gets invalidated by the newer gear. This is how things work. Just like in your example, the old raid gear gets replaced by the new raid gear.
B) This isn't one fell swoop also. This is an additional 10 levels, plus who knows what trail/tome/crafted/raid gear later.

It is fair as it allows all players to start off on the same footing. Whereas not making a brand new relic forces them to either create some type of catch up quest or forces them to nerf the entire previous relic to the ground so that players whom didn't complete the 2.0 relic, for whatever reason, can catch up.

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The relic quest is a different beast. I seriously doubt they will let you skip all the 2.0 stuff and start off with the (ex, Ragnarok) at level 51. It is story driven. at the best they will relax the requirements to complete each stage but I think they will still make you go through the whole thing. That would be like saying if you buy heavensward you can start at level 50 because its only fair that they are caught up. Sorry, this is one thing of WoW (jump to level 90!) that we wont see for quite a long time. WoW has a good 10+years on this game so it makes sense for them to do it.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I don't see how that's fair at all, really. It completely invalidates the time we've spent on the relics. It should be used to help start you out, just like having the previous raid's gear helps you progress into the new one faster than those that come later and are buying theirs with tomes. Gear doesn't become obsolete in one fell swoop.

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But its the expansion = all that op gear u had will become nothing but vanity. Gear becomes obsolete in one fell swoop but not at an instant, just gradually = depends how fast ppl blaze thru content.
Relics will become vanity i'm pretty sure so once u clear t13 weekly and got ur dreadwyrm wep then ur relic is already a vanity item as there's really no point in getting any stronger as there will be no new raid content till 3.0

a lvl cap raise is always a CUT in endgame content. think about doing current relic 2.0 line as a NEW player on all these OLD lvl 50 dungeons that MOST players wont run ever again mostly since they are no longer endgame but require players to have i90+ gear to even stand a chance to deal with some of the dps checks etc. it just doesnt work. its not PRACTICAL to force players trough this all again when most players are at lvl 60 and dont bother with em. light farming also a big issue. how will you farm light at 60? with a novus ilvl110 wep that is a lvl 50 item people would kick you outright for beeing totally undergeared etc.

they will make a cut on relic line. yoschi states that zodiac is ULTIMATE with 2.51 how to improve an ultimate weapon? bullshit. you dont. yoschi said that they quest series will continue but he never said anything about it still needing all the old 2.0 relic contet to be done. guys they even make t13 not needed for the new raid aswell. so that same thing will happen to the relic quest in some form. also they finally have to allow people to switch thier current relic to a different class lets say 1 per month without penalty because otherwise you would be bound to your main classs for all eternity because of that weapon.

2.51 will likely make relic i135 and BIS till expansion. and then we will see what happens.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

. I seriously doubt they will let you skip all the 2.0 stuff and start off with the (ex, Ragnarok) at level 51.

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If they create some type of catch up mechanic, I don't think they will give you the 2.0 weapon, but merely a kind of credit so that one could progress to the 3.0 relic quest line. For example, players would do X,Y, and Z quests to put them on the same footing as someone whom had completed the 2.0 relic.

I was only thinking of this because if a player started the game in the expansion it seems unlikely that they would stop, while leveling to do the entire relic quest line. It would be especially hard for them to complete knowing that the vast majority of the player base is no longer doing content of that level. Even if the requirements were relaxed a bit, doing all of the fates and dungeons would become tedious for that player. As a developer you want people to be doing the latest content. Forcing players to spend large amounts of time in the old content seems to defeat this purpose.

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Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

If they create some type of catch up mechanic, I don't think they will give you the 2.0 weapon, but merely a kind of credit so that one could progress to the 3.0 relic quest line. For example, players would do X,Y, and Z quests to put them on the same footing as someone whom had completed the 2.0 relic.

I was only thinking of this because if a player started the game in the expansion it seems unlikely that they would stop, while leveling to do the entire relic quest line. It would be especially hard for them to complete knowing that the vast majority of the player base is no longer doing content of that level. Even if the requirements were relaxed a bit, doing all of the fates and dungeons would become tedious for that player. As a developer you want people to be doing the latest content. Forcing players to spend large amounts of time in the old content seems to defeat this purpose.

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Well, I disagree. There is a lot of story that will be missed but skipping all the Gerolt missions and such. Like I said, the best we will get is a reduction in requirements or ease of achieving them. Even if someone started the game with the release of the expansion, hey will have to go through all of 2.0 to get to 3.0. They will not be jumping strait to level 50 and getting into heavensward stuff.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree at this point then wait to see how it is handled once 3.0 is released. I will mark this thread so I can go back and check