Or, rather, by their own admission, that players were too good at number crunching and found a way to have it do more than SE intended it to do. Ninja as SE intended it to be used would have been fine; too bad the player base outdid SE's own class designers on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miitan
Either way, it sounds nice, but at the same time the end result of this is actually a lot more braindead than you'd think. We go from actually having rotations and sequences to learn and perform, to... spamming the same move over and over on a certain target for something you're likely relying on outside information to find out is even a thing. I'm not sure I'd call that enhancing the game experience, as novel as the idea sounds. This isn't to say there aren't ways to make it work that are more interesting than that, but it's similar to the whole "Why am I not targetting a weakness with Black Mage" thing - because all that ends up happening is you reduce to just spamming a single element spell and just needing to know which one's the correct answer to the problem.
It would be cool to see this feature return!
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01-13-2015, 05:44 AMGarlyle
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01-13-2015, 05:49 AMkyuven
I'm seeing that the logic isn't "It's too difficult for players to comprehend," but rather "It forces certain classes in certain situations."
With the current FFXIV, while it isn't always optimal, as long as you have a tank, a healer, and some DPS, you can do pretty much anything. Restricting certain actions to certain moves used by certain classes means that players who don't LIKE those classes are forced to use those classes for those purposes.
For example, let's say player A really likes playing lancer, and he really likes crafting.
It's a pretty well-known fact that certain recipes for gear for lancers require aldgoat horns (horn scale armor, anyone?) and Player A wants to be self-sufficient and make the gear himself.
Well, since he uses spears, he can't get the horns. Sure, he could buy them, but he can't get them himself and thus can't be self-sufficient.
Another example. There's a boss who needs to have his legs disabled in order to prevent an OHKO charge attack. Your group is therefore FORCED to bring a monk and/or bard for this fight, since they're the only ones that can disable lower limbs.
Conversely, if the arms need to be broken, you MUST bring a DRG to deal with one limb, and either a WAR or PLD for the other limb.
This is called "character select forcing," something 2.0 was specifically designed to NOT have. They've said numerous times that they'd ideally want all content to be doable by any configuration of DPS, tank, and healer.
The dev team doesn't think we're idiots, but they DO think we complain a lot. And they're not wrong. Having a system that promotes character select forcing just makes the game unnecessarily convoluted and doesn't gel with the way the game system works now. Since melee classes use combos now, pretty much every attack will get used so just adding "breaks" to skills would be pointless as nearly every skill will eventually get used in a long enough fight.
Oh, and having to knock off a horn from a goat to get it is stupid anyway. It's dead. We can pull it off ourselves. If anything hitting it with a sword would be more likely to damage it beyond use. -
01-13-2015, 05:55 AMGramulGotta get that sweet lowest common denominator money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake0615
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01-13-2015, 09:10 AM314159265358979323846264338327And don't you dare suggest in a polite way to these people that they do something different, lest you get a flurry of "dont tell me how 2 pley u elitest @#$% u dont pay 4 my gaem get a lief sory i dont pley 247 u were new 2 1nce", as they sit there in full i120 poetics gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Of course, not helping them gets the same response from them. -
01-13-2015, 09:38 AMParodineThis, precisely. It's not that players are too stupid for this system. It's that it's needlessly exclusionary.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
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01-13-2015, 09:49 AMPrototype909Are we playing the same game? Bard is already required in every progression pushing fight and has been since the launch of the game practically.Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
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01-13-2015, 10:07 AMPArcherlol. You are so clueless. I dont know how many people I've helped learn their jobs and optimize, far more than I can remember since launch. Problem is, for every person I help, there are 10 more that I can't, mostly because they won't listen to suggestions or think they are perfect as they are ("its my money and I can play as I want")Quote:
Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327
Also, if you're going to say anything about gear, would help to at least do a proper gear-check and note what I really have ;) -
01-13-2015, 04:15 PMBluevannI don't think he was talking about you. Sounded like he quoted you because he agreed to your post and wanted to continue what you were saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
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01-13-2015, 04:23 PMChiramuAnimation locking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluevann
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01-13-2015, 10:05 PMArchadiusSo... Making it so that 1 skill from each DPS class can incapacitate a specific part is out of the realm of possibility? (ex. 1 skill from each DPS breaks lower limbs, 1 from each breaks left side, right side, head/horns, etc) Or perhaps correctly executing combos consecutively could cause incapacitation? (think stacking Wrath or Greased Lightning)Quote:
Originally Posted by kyuven
This would not be a hard thing to do... Evolution is key. Just because we want a feature to make a return, doesn't mean that it needs to be an exact carbon copy of its v1 existence.
Given the above, it would eliminate your "character select forcing" while still encouraging players to pay attention and use their damn brains.