Thank you. Those are my thoughts exactly, but you used a better way to describe them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
I also like to add that the same applies for speed running too. Not every player is speed run material or is well versed in speed running tactics. I’ve been working on my new Zodiac questline which requires me to run the old dungeons for certain drops. I tend to go in as a healer, rather than a Tank since i personally don’t want to speed run (especially as a tank) but i can manage as a healer. So far, 95% of the dungeon runs i did (didn’t matter which dungeon it was) people wanted to speed run it (without consulting with the rest if they are up for it).
The thing is, like Lemuria said earlier, you can’t expect everyone to be on the same level as you in the DF. Especially when it comes to the lower level dungeons. I still find a lot of people in there who are leveling their class. There are plenty of people who are quite experienced with the content, but you’ll never know for sure if you simply queue up for a Dungeon/Raid/Trial in the DF without a pre-made party.
So, @OP, it’s never too late to learn a new Turn, Trial or Dungeon. Although, the safest way to form a learning party is through the PF, since you can explicitly say that you will queue up for Turn 6 as a learning party (but that doesn’t mean you can’t use the DF for that). A lot of experienced people would most likely join you, since they will be getting the Bonus Tomes from it, but you will also get the chance to meet people who are in the same boat as you.
Who knows, you might even find enough people to form a Static with for content like this. (^_^ )
So i’d like to say <Good Luck!> in T6, and i hope you will clear it soon! (^_^ )-b
Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?
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12-18-2014, 07:38 PMAldora
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12-19-2014, 04:36 AMLineageRazor
People can claim whatever they want about "what Duty Finder is for", but the very fact that people argue about it leads to one inescapable conclusion: Whatever people WANT Duty Finder to be for, what it actually is is a mix of all kinds of different players. Hardcore experts. Fresh newbies that don't even know videos EXIST, let alone that they're expected to watch them. People with hair-trigger reflexes. People with Comcast- er, I mean, lag issues.
If you sign up in Duty Finder expecting to get a group where everyone knows the fight and you'll down the run in one or two attempts, you're being hopelessly naive. Can it happen? Absolutely. Is it likely? Depends on the difficulty of the instance. Most of the time, though, you'll have to deal with That One Guy who just can't dodge Plumes, or doesn't seem to know how to handle Blighted Boquet - and a lot of the time, it'll be Those Several Guys.
Given that it's a crapshoot, though, I find going into content blind while KNOWING that the mechanics are complex and difficult to master even when you know what to expect to be pretty rude to the other players. Essentially, you're putting these other seven players on hold while you figure this stuff out, and that's something you could have done ahead of time. How quickly would a raw player figure out the interplay between Fireball, Conflagration, and the Conflag speed buffs if they didn't know to expect it? Let alone the tactic of deliberately entering a Conflag when targeted with Fireball... These are pretty vital to know, though, and among the first things you're taught upon watching a T5 video.
Going raw and trying to figure out mechanics by personal experience costs valuable practice time - and is probably futile anyway, as the mechanics will be hastily explained to you by the party if they're indulgent, or you'll simply be kicked if they are not. You'll only be raw for as long as it takes for the party to REALIZE that you're raw. So, you've wasted the party's time, and not even succeeded at your goal.
While it's foolish to have any high expectations for the folks that sign on to Duty Finder, it's even more foolish to transform yourself into That One Guy on purpose. If you really want to experience content raw, there are two awesome, and pretty much universally acceptible ways to do it: get in on the content when it's fresh and new and EVERYONE is raw, or gather like-minded (or tolerant) players by using a Party Finder with your situation clearly spelled-out. The latter is particularly nice, as it's a good way to meet like-minded folks who will stick with you and who you can call upon for future raw excursions. -
12-19-2014, 05:02 AMKazumac^ This. If I go into ex or coil in DF and see a 100 soldiery message, I'm asking who is new and explaining the fight. A raw experience is not something you can achieve via DF since someone will explain (or kick). I want to increase my chance of success so you'll get an explanation like it or not and I'm going to wish you'd looked it up a bit before hand as the act of me explaining it will cost the group roughly an extra attempt at something we may or may not down.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
I respect wanting the fresh experience but that's best achieved via getting like minded individuals who won't spoil it for you. When I'm in DF I want us to have the maximum chance of success... So I probably wouldn't comply with someone's desire to see content blind and would explain. -
12-19-2014, 07:34 AMSapphicAnd what do you do when the new person doesnt say a thing. and/or does not understand a word of english even though they selected E in DF for "faster ques"? So ability to teach and coordinate is close to zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazumac
Yes it does happen, way too often. -
12-19-2014, 07:43 AMZanzhizExaverion
Just... duty finder it.
I beat T5. Friend was like "lol lets pug t6/7 its easy." I said ok, I 1 shot both.
They're a joke, easier than Ramuh with the Nerfs. -
12-19-2014, 07:46 AMLemuriaWhat's the difference between someone who's not taken the guide on board fully and someone completely new to the fight? Zero, that's what, so your point is moot on that basis alone. The point still stands that they're going to need to learn how to fight, and the best way to get further is to help them, not hinder them by being a bigot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboron
Only an idiot would ignore the fact that actually getting hands-on experience is going to help you a LOT more than wasting hours trying to find a single group for a handful of runs. Sure, you may not WIN by running the Duty Finder, but you get experience and you can get a lot of it quickly. It's far from lazy to want to get the experience to get better, and thankfully not everyone in DF is like you and may even be willing to lend a few tips from their own experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barboron
There are two ways to play. Be a part of the problem, or be part of the solution. You seem to prefer the former -
12-19-2014, 07:51 AMKazumacSimple, I'll try to communicate (in English) if it doesn't work or they don't respond, I'll remove them or remove myself. If they can't or won't communicate they don't need to be there or I don't need to spend my time there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphic
But that's how I handle it (ie personal choice, I don't hold others to that expectation), I'm not saying it's right or wrong and I certainly don't expect others to explain fights when I zone into DF. My post that you quoted was actually intended to be a refutation of the idea DF is a good way to experience a fight raw as lineage described it since the majority of the time some one will explain it or remove you defeating the raw experience. -
12-19-2014, 09:10 AMBarboronI don't see what's so difficult for you about what I have said. I never said I expect anyone to full understand a guide and know a fight inside out from it. What I did say is that I would be willing to assist anyone who put in the effort before hand to look up a guide, or even made PF groups to go in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
Picture this scenario (if you can without headache), going into T6 and you get a completely new person. Hasn't stepped foot inside, hasn't looked at a guide, doesn't know a damn thing. So, after having done T6 a number of times in the DF, the obvious method to deal with devour is LoS. You suggest LoS to someone, they won't have a clue until you spend several minutes explaining it. On top of that, they have to adjust to the new marker which they have never seen before. Also have to get the timing down, not get devoured themselves while also not causing others to get devoured. On top of that again there are two tactics, LoS on the MT or group LoS.
Starting to see my point? Time in the DF is limited, having to explain all that for just one mechanic is time consuming. Try explaining honey, the briar, slugs, acid rain, burn method etc. and you get little to no time to actually practice in the DF because chances are, with newer players, someone is going to kill someone and you won't see the end of the fight. I have seen it happen often enough in the DF and I see it in the PF. I see it with people who have a kill too, which is why I pointed out several times that I don't overly preference someone with the kill versus someone who has studied the fight before hand. -
12-19-2014, 09:55 AMGardesI'd agree if you're going into the fight with some idea of what to expect from the fight. If we're to look at another instance where the word 'hands-on experience' is used, you don't send an intern to get some 'hands-on experience' before making them go through some text learning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
So it's not okay for 1 player to have to wait/look for 7 other consenting players but it's okay to get 7 random players that may have a different goal and potentially waste their time? Because they're strangers? Or is it because that 1 player just doesn't care?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
And there are 2 sides. Both have to compromise. If the experienced players have to accommodate for the new player who's trying to do old content, he should at least read up on the fight. If I were to suddenly stop playing before ever seeing t13 and I came back to my fc having t13 on farm and they offered to help me get past it, I would go read up on the fight first. I wouldn't look at a gift horse in the mouth and ask them to flail about in t13 just because I wanted to, even if they are my good game friends, unless they specifically wanted me to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuria
Yes, reading on it is not the same as seeing the fight first hand but I'll be able to put two and two together as soon as I see them instead of having to scramble or just stand in one spot to look at the animations, effects, my status, party status, debuff icons, buff icons, to understand what's going to happen as the mechanics happen. -
12-19-2014, 08:57 PMSapphicBut you both on the same page, you name a mechanic they know what it is. Instead of "durrrr whats that?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardes
See so many go into DF and first thing they say is "what do I do?" instead of taking a few minutes to read up in a more detailed written way something they are expecting others to type up for them. From the posts, pretty much demanding that others cater to them not having to make any effort to prepare for said content. Isn't that the definition of self entitlement?
Instead of going into DF expecting everyone else to cater to one, meet em half way and do some preparation before joining, As it is MUCH easier and less time consuming to help someone who is on the same page/speaking the same language in regards to mechanics and terminology.
I've also seen it the other way as well, where, with fights with different strats for mechanics, the tank, instead of checking everyone is using the same strat, says nothing and just initiates the fight then gets mad when half the party does one thing and the other half another XD